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Outside The Ring: My Thoughts On Premarital Sex

Discussion in 'Marriage and Relationships' started by Niel_W, Jun 20, 2013.

  1. This turned out much longer than I anticipated, so I don’t know how many will read this. Anyway, as a quick disclaimer, this thread is about the idea of premarital sex, and note that I’m not intending to ‘find a loophole’ or trying to use reasoning to get out of sin. Simply put, I’ve been thinking about this frequently (not due to desire, but rather for truth-seeking) and trying to search for wisdom and my own spiritual led interpretation instead of following other people. That’s what the Bible was written for, right? For believers to discover what God is saying rather than have other people tell them? Of course, that’s what pastors are for- to help guide their brothers and sisters in a Godly life- nobody can really tell you what God is saying to you.
    So yes, I’d like input on this common issue. I know we live in a sexually charge and impure society, but is it possible to engage in premarital sex without being impure to God? I believe it could be possible. With another side note, know that I’ve never had to come up against sexual temptation so again, there are no impure motivations behind this. Consider these ideas:

    - -Jesus was not very elaborate on the subject of sex. Many of his teachings revolved around adultery- which was about marriage- and prostitution, which I’m not questioning the morality of. Exploiting the intimacy and bond of sex for money and physical pleasure is, in my opinion, selfish and a clear violation of God’s purpose. Our idea of what the Jesus means by sexual impurity or immorality, is derived from other people’s interpretation that we’ve accepted.

    - -Who did go into detail on the topic was Paul. He does speak a lot of fornication, lust and marriage. Paul writings are the basis for most of our morals when it comes to sexual purity. However, Paul was just a man. As Christians, it seems we take his writings as just as sacred as the teachings of Christ. I’m not trying to downplay his significance in Christianity, but remember that Paul was just as flawed of a human being as we are- and he admits it. To live by Paul’s morals at the same level as Christ’s would be idolatry, would it not? Yes, many of his thoughts line up well with Christ’s, but the things he adds are only his own interpretations from experience.

    Now, I realize that these sound like technicalities, but in reality, I feel like they’re elements of our faith that are overlooked and replaced by the interpretations of other men and woman.
    Furthermore, there are historical elements that I see that can support this idea. Think about how men and woman came to be married in ancient times. More or less, the man would seek a mate, court her, and then get permission from her father. Who was it that had to work for seven years just to end up marrying the sister of the woman he intended to marry? The road to marriage seemed very impersonal, and today is drastically different. We have the freedom to find a compatible partner in order to have a healthy marriage. We know now today that a healthy sex life is a healthy marriage, and that’s what God wants for us- a healthy marriage; one that doesn’t end up in divorce or infidelity.
    Consider this: Two people decide to abstain before getting married. After they are wed, they find out, for whatever reason, that they aren’t sexually compatible. It happens. Now I know sex isn’t the absolute most important thing in a relationship, but if a person can’t find intimacy with their partner, more than likely they’ll seek it somewhere else, which leads to infidelity. Imagine now that these two people divorce in the future because of lack of intimacy. They could have avoided that if they had known, and could have worked it out before marriage.
    Another thing is about culture change. We as Christians are not part of this world, which is why we have the teachings of Christ; to guide us through the world in a pure and Godly way. But, there are certain things one cannot avoid in a world that demands so much change, so God must have taken into account the way we have to adapt. If Jesus came today, in the same manner and same basic teachings as we read in the New Testament, do you think he would say the exact same things, or would it be suited to how the world works now? How would morality be defined? If we interpret his teachings in accordance to the culture of those times, so many things would be different. What we consider modest clothing on a woman- not too tight pants and a shirt that hides cleavage, stomach, etc.- would probably be consider attire of a prostitute by Biblical era standards. To get a perspective on this, over a thousand years after Biblical times, just a woman’s exposed ankle was considered erotic. Imagine what the culture in the time of the New Testament would think about a girl wearing even a sweatshirt and baggy pants.
    The point is that some culture change is necessary and some does not have to be adapted to. So, consider the change in which we find a romantic partner. We go to school, and while in school, many kids develop crushes. Throughout high school and college (if you attended college) a person will have several girl/boyfriends. We date them for some time, usually a few years before we then get married. Of course we have to wait until we’re out of school, which, if you go to college, isn’t until early to mid-twenties, then hopefully by then you’re out of your parents’ house and financially secure. Then the actual wedding isn’t for another few months, and you have to make sure you can pay for a wedding.
    That’s much different than seeking a beautiful woman, making sure she’s a virgin, getting her father’s consent, and holding a ceremony. Furthermore, they were much younger when they got married. Mary was still a teenager when she was to be married to Joseph. Today, we have to suppress our sexual urges (which are God-given and natural) from the time puberty hits (around 12-14) until usually our mid-twenties. That’s a long time, and from a medical standpoint, possibly harmful. Paul says that to marry is better than dealing with lust. But the times in life that you’re burning with the most lust are the times where it’s not possible to marry.
    What I’m leading up to in all of this, is that times have drastically changed, and although the Bible is not to be twisted to fit our desires, we don’t live in the ancient Middle East. We are in a time where we know more than ever about how the human body works, and that sex can actually be a good thing outside of marriage- if used responsibly. Biblical culture didn’t have contraception or the same knowledge as we do today. That’s not to say we should give in to every lustful thought and sexual urge- I’m not saying that at all. Lust is still wrong, as promiscuity, but if exploring your sexuality with a potential spouse to find your compatibility leads to a successful marriage, isn’t that what God wants? I realize people abuse sex and the media uses our primitive urges to exploit it, but does that mean that those who use it as God intended have to avoid it? That’s like the classic saying “one person ruins it for everyone”. Anything that causes harm to yourself or another person is obviously against God’s will, but sex can be used for good outside of marriage. It’s those who sleep around and prostitute themselves that cause damage by spreading STD’s and also the emotional strain.
    Jesus warned against sexual impurity. Paul interpreted what that meant for the present time. Our job is to seek what that means for our time. I know it’s a controversial idea, and many here may disagree, but I wanted to present it in a Christian based community to get some honest feedback. If I had said all this on a regular website, the secular people would probably say I’m overthinking. So really, what’s your opinion on all this? Do we follow the Bible as rigid rules like other people tell us it is, or do we let it help us live as God would want based on where we are personally and culturally? Or do we go by Paul statement of something being ok for one and not the other based on what you believe is right? And this doesn’t have to be confined strictly to sex; any moral issue that’s rather vaguely covered in the Bible can be applied.
    So thoughts? I’m interested.
     
  2. Today in the world where the values of the world are going away the church is sometimes mislead in morals. Today this is something that being a sin is being justified by people in churches but it is sin regardless. Sin is to be decided not by the values of people but by the truth of the word of God. People morals will continue to decline as time goes.
     
  3. First, men and women are sexually compatible. That's how we are designed. Specific preferences are gained through experience, so the "sexual incompatibility" that the secular world talks about so much is only an issue BECAUSE of premarital sex. When a marriage is consummated, the process of learning about each other and learning how to enjoy each other begins.

    Second, if a couple is having issues of intimacy, they have a far, far bigger problem than sex. Sex is an expression of intimacy, it is not the defining factor. By "working this out before marriage", they are creating problems, not solving them.

    Third, to discount Paul's writing is essentially equivalent to dismissing Scripture. Yes, they were letters. Yes, Paul was a man. No, they aren't in the Bible "on accident", but are there to show us what it means to live a Christian life and need to be recognized as such.

    While I don't accept legalism, we need to use some actual discernment and wisdom here. Sex has become an idol in our world. It has been put up on a ridiculous pedestal and Satan is taking every opportunity to distort and twist the Holy definition of family, marriage, and sex. Sex was designed to be a bonding between a couple, and when exercised outside that bond, it is sin because it is a distortion of the Holy purpose for which it was created. It is giving something of yourself to someone that it does not belong. Our job isn't to go out into the world and try to find the sexiest partner we can find through experimentation to find out who can make us feel the absolute best, it is to find someone who can journey with us through life as we become more Christlike together.
     
    Kurt75, KingJ, Rusty and 1 other person say Amen and like this.
  4. The more I study the Bible, the more I come to realize that what many call "rigid rules" are not meant to "harsh our gig", but to lead us into what is good and right and blessed and glorious. Righteousness, purity, holiness, fidelity, and even self-denial and self-sacrifice are GOOD things - not only pleasing to God, but healthy and desirable for our own sakes.

    IMHO, the idea of exploring "sexual compatibility" outside of marriage is nonsense. Sexual relations are an integral and inseparable part of marriage, part of the same context. In any human marriage, neither of you is going to get everything they want sexually from their spouse. The adjustments, sacrifices, and gifts of giving-of-self that you give one another are vital parts of your honoring God, your own bodies, and one another. And any so-called sexual compatibility you may find before marriage is not going to define a stasis throughout your relationship in marriage. People's lives are in constant flux - health issues, life circumstances, emotional states, changes in physical appearance and function, changes from aging, etc., etc., etc.

    A healthy marriage does not derive from a "healthy" sex life. Nor do problems in the sexual realm necessarily end in divorce. So to blame a divorce on a failure to find sexual compatibility before marriage is also nonsense, IMHO. What happens if one spouse becomes a quadriplegic while the other remains physically healthy with all the sexual drives intact? To suggest that divorce is any answer to this is to cheapen the concept of marriage and, oddly enough (again, IMHO) to cheapen sex, as well.
     
    Kurt75 and th1bill say Amen and like this.
  5. Banerenth:
    I like and agree that last paragraph of yours, and it's one of the ideas I was trying to bring up. I feel like the way that society distorts and worships sexual impurity and turns it into what it wasn't intended to be, is one of the reasons that has a bad reputation for in the eyes of those looking to live a pure life. I've always tried to live with the idea is the motive, not the action (obviously there are exceptions). But like I mentioned in my post, today's standards have changed, and if the Bible is 100% non conforming, then most of us have some serious thinking about the way we live; most people- even Christians- are dressed very immorally (as I also explained) even when by modern Christian standards, we consider it moral. I guess my question was this: does God allow room for moral flexibility in proportion to our understanding of how world works? In regards to Clark's response, I wasn't saying "everyone else's morals are declining so why can't Christians' as well?" I was saying more along the lines that today we know what sex is, how it works, and most importantly, how to use it in a safe and responsible manner that wasn't possible in Biblical times.
    Let me also clear things up; there seems to be some misunderstanding of what I meant by sexual compatibility, even though it wasn't my primary argument. Yes, I'm aware that men and woman are compatible, but by that simple logic, and what society does today, men and men are "compatible"; woman and woman are "compatible"; humans and animals are "compatible" (not that I'm condoning any of that, I'm just creating examples). If you define "sexually compatible" by whether or not two things can have sex, then sure, everyone is. Certain people like certain things, I won't get in to details, but let me give a goofy example. If somebody loves Mexican food, but doesn't care for seafood that much, that person isn't going to want to visit a sushi restaurant every night for the rest of his life- even though the people are nice and the conversations are good. Everyone has a sexual preference just as everyone has a personality, a hobby, and whatever quirks that make them a unique individual, and finding someone who shares similar preferences, I think, can be a boost in a marriage. Again, I am NOT saying that this is what defines the success of a relationship; all I am saying is that I feel like people should look at every element of one in order to find the best one possible.
    Lastly, about what Banaranth mentioned about Paul... I know Paul is scripture, but remember who put the Bible together: first the Catholic Church (which was extraordinarily corrupt and hypocritical) and then the Protestant church, who were trying to rebel against the church (they called it reform). No, Paul's letters are not in the Bible by accident, but they were placed in there by *humans* who had to decide what was holy and what was not. Trying to dismiss Paul's importance- he was a very remarkable Christian. What I'm doing is taking the purest form of Jesus' teaching, which are the one's he spoke himself, and trying to apply them to how the world is today. If we attempt to live like we're in Biblical times, we're going to have a difficult time. I don't think that's what God wants.

    Thanks for the replies so far! I've needed to see what others thought of this.
     
  6. You are free at will to decide:

    Obey...or...disobey.

    There is no grey area for God. God will however turn our sins to propogate His purpose.

    You are free to believe what you want, when you operate beyond God's processes, you bring your own judgement upon your self.

    Many people who have gone beyond God's ways in our own vain imagination can testify that doing things God's way is far better than the alternative. You are free to turn a deaf ear in pride to anyone's advice.
     
  7. Is it fair?
    Is the “not compatible” mutual?
    The very basic that can most likely happen: the boy will simply leave the girl he found “not compatible”.... since the girl is inexperience in the first place!

    And girl will cry because he loves the boy : (

    And where the will the girl can get that experience to be good, so she will be “compatible”? By reading???
    Then the next that most likely will happen is the boy will then reject the "compatible" girl because she already gave the first to someone else!
    And girl will cry because he loves the boy...........seriously: we are warned not to take advantage.

    David as a young shepherd meditate on the wisdom of the word… use your time well.
     
  8. It's rather difficult to reason from Scripture if you only really trust the words in red which, of course, are only what *man* recorded in books that *man* decided to include in the Canon.

    Sexual preferences can be shaped. Indeed, they must continually adapt as things change in a relationship. Maybe you and your spouse can't agree on sushi or tacos, but can both come together to agree on and enjoy a good steak.
     
    Niel_W and th1bill say Amen and like this.
  9. Well, here goes Old Loud Mouth again.

    When I gave my life, all of it, over to my LORD, this premarital question weighed heavy on my heart and was one of the early studies I dug into. As a, not famous, Country Singer I was guilty, many times over. I say guilty because the scriptures demonstrate nothing else. Understand that there are great numbers of people that disagree with me but not one of them has ever built a case for their objections from the scriptures and so here goes;

    In God's eyes there is no such thing as premarital sex. Just as Rumley has sta ted, you will never learn the lessons of scripture from the red words of the New Testament, you also will not, I'll add, learn the lessons accurately from, just, reading the God authored Life Application Commentary on the Bible, a.k.a. the New Testament. You must dig into the Bible Jesus, Paul, Peter and the others taught from before you can, ever, fully understand what the Holy Spirit has for you to learn.

    When we look at the book of beginnings, Genesis, we begin to understand what marriage is from God's perspective. When God brought the flesh of his flesh to Adam, Adam was presented with this incredibly beautiful, naked, woman and, being a human male and there being no rule against it, he and she coupled and they were married!

    A little further forward, in the same book, and we see the marriage of the woman of his dreams to Isaac. She knew she had been paid for but nearing her destination and, soon to be, husband, she hid her face in modesty. When she had entered the tent, she was followed by Isaac, no one else. When they emerged, they were married.

    A little further, in Genesis, we see Jacob, later Israel, and the account of the wedding he deceived into living through, resulting his 14 years of labor and two wives. When Jacob married Leah, his father in law got him drunk, placed her in his bed and the next morning they were married... like it or not!

    If a man lies with a woman... no I'm not afraid to say had sex, they are married. And from this, with a great deal of prayer and study, I have learned that when a young man and a young lass hit that rear seat at the Drive-In, they have done a great deal more than they ever imagined and, knowing, God hates devorce, when they go their separate ways, they have made the coupling into fornication, a sin, and devorced without, even, a letter of separation.

    Not only that, he has stolen a treasure that will never, now, belong to her future husband and do you believe that his future mate will be proud that she was not his first?

    I'll cut this here, I believe you understand what I teach on this now and may God bless your study as He has mine. It will never make you popular with the masses but following God... His way, is an eternal blessing.
     
    Kurt75 and Brother_Mike_V say Amen and like this.
  10. I like it th1bill!

    'cleave'
    'Two become one flesh'
    'till death do you part'
    'twain'

    It takes two, and I like what you said about 'stolen treasure'; I would say you are on the money. A 'marriage license' is just a piece of paper in the 'law'. A ceremony is just that-and it should be a recognized joyous occasion.The 'act' of marriage is between a husband and wife in their home....(all the days of their lives)

    1 Corinthians 6:
    15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
    16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
    17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
    18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
    19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
    20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
     
    th1bill likes this.
  11. A lot of good points here. I'll just chime in with one.

    Sure, you can say that sex outside marriage as a test of compatibility is valid. Just know it'll come at the cost. Due to the human psychology, something which I'm sure God knew beforehand, premarital sex with other people will disrupt to a certain degree, small or large, the intimacy between you and your future husband and wife.

    I'm 98% sure that'll happen.
     
  12. Also of the opinion that if a couple has sex before marriage they have (save for proper repentance) ruined their relationship for good. It just starts a slow death from thence. Which explains tons of divorces today and difficulties experienced in relationships.

    A pastor once told me that he wont marry a couple that have already slept together. There can no longer be a wedding but instead a "blessing" ceremony of some sort.

    The best chance to give a relationship is to start afresh and reserve your intimacy for marriage - for your own sakes.
     
    th1bill likes this.

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