Our mortal enemy has deceived the church with many lies

Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by Samuels, Aug 29, 2016.

  1. First, let’s review what Scripture teaches about Satan
    “the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world” (Revelation 12:9)
    “there is no truth in him ... he is a liar and the father of it” (John 8:44)
    “the whole world lies in the power of the evil one” (1 John 5:19)
    “the god of this world” (2 Corinthians 4:4)
    “the ruler of this world” (John 12:31)
    “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks
    about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour” (1 Peter 5:8)

    Satan has convinced the church that many Scriptures are NOT true!
    Here are Scripture rebuttals to some of Satan’s lies …

    Satan’s lie: You do NOT need to overcome your sinning
    • “For the wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23)
    • “For if you live according to the flesh you will die” (Romans 8:13)
    • “He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he will be
    My son. But (… examples of sinners …) and all liars shall have their part in the lake
    that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” (Revelation 21:7-8)
    • “For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption,
    but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.” (Galatians 6:8)
    • “For to be carnally-minded is death, but to be spiritually-minded is life and peace.” (Romans 8:6)
    • “Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin when it is full-grown
    brings forth death. Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.” (James 1:15-16)
    • “reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men” (2 Peter 3:7)

    Is “ungodly” the right term for believers who sin regularly, or shall we call them “godly”?

    Satan’s lie: You do NOT need to continually repent of your sins
    • “The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness,
    but is longsuffering toward us (Christians), not willing that any (of us) should perish
    but that all (of us) should come to repentance.” (2 Peter 3:9)
    • “I am not sorry that I sent that severe letter to you … because the pain caused you to
    repent and change your ways. It was the kind of sorrow God wants his people to have,
    so you were not harmed by us in any way. For the kind of sorrow God wants us to
    experience leads us away from sin and results in salvation. There’s no regret for
    that kind of sorrow.” (2 Corinthians 7:8-10, NLT)
    • “But IF we walk in the light as He is in the light … the blood of Jesus Christ His Son
    cleanses us from all sin … IF we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us
    of our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:7-9)

    Satan’s lie: You do NOT need to prove that you love Jesus by obeying His commandments
    • “If you love Me, keep My commandments.” (John 14:15)
    • “He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me.” (John 14:21)
    • “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him,
    and We will come to him and make Our home with him.” (John 14:23)
    • “He who does not love Me does not keep My words …” (John 14:24)
    • “He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.” (Hebrews 5:9)
    • “And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey?
    So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.” (Hebrews 3:18-19)

    Yes, “to not obey is to not believe” -- see the examples of not obeying:
    sinning (3:17), rebelling (3:16), hardening of the heart (3:15), not remaining faithful (3:14),
    sinning (3:13), evil heart of unbelief (3:12).

    Satan’s lie: You do NOT need to maintain your righteousness (i.e. practice righteousness)
    • “And they (Zach and Liz) were both righteous before God,
    walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.” (Luke 1:6)

    Notice above that even people who are NOT born-again can live righteously.
    • “… let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous” (1 John 3:7)
    • “… you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.” (1 John 2:29)
    • “… whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him” (Acts 10:35)
    • “… (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness” (Romans 6:16)
    • “In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest:
    whoever does NOT practice righteousness is NOT of God” (1 John 3:10)

    Notice above that “the children of the devil” do NOT practice righteousness!

    Satan’s lie: You do NOT need to prepare for going through the great tribulation
    I have an article with 25 verses proving the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine is false.

    Satan’s lie: You do NOT need to be progressively sanctified unto holiness
    • “… holiness, without which no one will see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14)
    • “… so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness” (Romans 6:19)
    • “… beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit,
    perfecting holiness in the fear of God.” (2 Corinthians 7:1)

    Satan’s lie: You do NOT need to have a personal relationship with Father God and Jesus
    • “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven,
    but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day,
    ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name,
    and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them,
    ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ (Matthew 7:21-23)
    • “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
    And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish …” (John 10:27-28)
    • “I know My sheep, and am known by My own.” (John 10:14)
    • “And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God,
    and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.” (John 17:3)

    I am being too gracious, if I give Satan all the credit for the condition of the churches!
    For those in charge of the churches have been extremely lax in shepherding God’s sheep.
    The reasons for their many failures might be obvious to you.
    Jacqueline Gordon and KingJ say Amen and like this.
  2. Remember that churches are run by men and all men are sinners.

    I am old enough to remember that when a church needed a pastor to lead it, the 1st question asked was, "Where did you go to school".

    Now do not misunderstand me folks. Attending a higher school of learning to be a Pastor/Preaching or attending a seminary does not make one a Pastor/teacher any more than standing in a garage makes one a car. It does however allow the person to learn and grow and mature in knowledge of the Scriptures in a way that he can not do on his own simply because he was "called to preach". The "Calling" must come from God but IMO that person then needs to be taught so that he can effectively teach others.

    As a result, we now have women pastors, men who have been divorced 3 or 4 times and even homosexuals who are pastoring churches.
    Now, look at the moral condition of the USA and the ineffective work of the Church in America and ask yourself if what I am saying has come home to roost.

    This just my opinion and no one has to agree with me on this. Just my thinking out loud.
  3. #3 Cturtle, Aug 29, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2016

    Just a friendly warning to all members to think before you post.... attacking Any pastor, preacher or teacher, or anyone else is not acceptable.. and is a violation of the rules (Rule 3.1 Members may not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, demeaning, threatening, or insulting to any person or group; repeated in many posting areas (spam); or otherwise violates any laws. Such posts will be deleted and the Member warned or banned.) and will result in points issued, and possible thread closure

    God Bless you all
    Jacqueline Gordon, Fish Catcher Jim and autumn oddity says Amen and like this.
  4. I hope my comment did not come across that way. If it did, please remove it.
  5. Jesus said, let the dead bury their dead.

    To the carnal minded that is very insulting and demeaning; while appearing to be dishonorable toward men, Jesus honored Father God.

    All praise glory and honor be unto God Amen
    calvin and Abdicate say Amen and like this.
  6. Nope it didnt...just wanted to caution everyone replying in this thread to not go that direction, it can be easy for some to start criticizing the church when they feel like their pastor or a pastor or teacher has not taught them right or for someone to get on the bandwagon of picking apart a certain denomination or ministry that they don't agree with.

    Fish Catcher Jim, autumn oddity and Major says Amen and like this.
  7. I sure wish I could understand your comments. I know you mean well and your heart is right but honestly, I can not grasp your meanings. Would you care to elaborate????
  8. Yes, there is a lot of sinfulness in the world.

    But consider:

    Sin comes from giving in to temptation. There are three sources of temptation: The World, The Flesh, and the Enemy (I dislike using any of his names or titles).

    It may be instructive to note that the other two are _us_. The Flesh being our individual selfish personal desires; and the World being the things of the society of men.

    Although the enemy is only one of the three sources of temptation, he does make opportunistic use of the other two.

    But in addition to understanding that, the follower of Christ should remember that in the final analysis, temptation is only overcome by the sinner (as empowered by His Lord).

    Therefore, it may be useful to understand the two classes of sinner: Those that are dead in their sin, and sinners saved by grace. In the final tally, those two classes encompass the whole of humanity, with the exception of our Lord Himself.

    If one is able to persuade an unsaved liar who cheats his fellow men, and fornicates with anyone who lets him to renounce his sinful ways and become an honest and chase individual, he remains a sinner still. The only difference is that he does not bring as much sadness to those who judge the world.

    If, on the other hand, he recognizes his need for Christ and accepts Christ’s payment for the state of his heart, then he becomes a child of the Kingdom, even if he never grows in Christ to the point where he no longer exhibits these outward symptoms.

    So the only place the battle against sin is really fought is in the will of the sinner. Although it is useful and necessary for one’s own growth in Christ to assess the profitability of associations and whom one may support, this is far from pronouncing judgment of which you disapprove.

    If you wish to battle sin, the best place for any of us to do that is while we are looking in the mirror. I specifically do not point to anyone but myself here, but I do encourage regular frank spiritual assessments of one’s self more than a critical look at what may be another part of the Body of Christ.

    It is fine to know why you hold to which doctrine. It is also good to know contrasting viewpoints, and that is not only to win arguments, but to appreciate how wide the narrow road really is.

    As far as asserting that those that hold to doctrine contrary to that which you are convinced is correct, let me pass on how a wise and Godly pastor dealt with doctrinal differences:

    A few years ago I was attending a doctrinally very conservative church. Another church that took a more charismatic view was being blessed with increased attendance as the result of their outreach program.

    Members of the conservative church started grumbling and talked about how unscriptural (in their view) this other church was.

    The pastor then preached a sermon on the various meanings of blasphemy. One meaning was misattribution, meaning either attributing the works of the enemy to the Holy Spirit, or attributing to the enemy the works of the Spirit. He then mentioned the grumbling over the other church and how he had overheard much grumbling and attributing happenings to the enemy. He looked as stern as I had ever seen him and repeated that one meaning of blasphemy was attributing the works of the Spirit. The congregation got the message.
  9. I never heard any of that preached in the church I came from....i do have an issue with the tribulation bullet point.

    Those that are found in Christ wont be around for the tribulation, they'll be raptured, so I dont get how you can prepare for something you wont be here for...that was my only hang up.
    Major and KingJ say Amen and like this.
  10. I think it's more preparing our hearts and getting our lives to line up with God's ways.
    Major, Fish Catcher Jim, loriT and 1 other person say Amen and like this.
  11. I feel as children of God it is a given that we will receive temptation and tribulations, but the good thing to hang on to is that our father will be with us and we have the holy spirit aswell as Gods word to help us.
    loriT, Major, autumn oddity and 1 other person say Amen and like this.
  12. I agree with that
    Fish Catcher Jim and Cturtle say Amen and like this.
  13. I promise you that you will NOT be raptured out of here
    before the great tribulation of the antichrist.
    So, prepare in every way imaginable.

    "I think it's more preparing our hearts and getting our lives to line up with God's ways."
    Jacqueline Gordon likes this.
  14. Whatever happens, be prepared to endure til the end.
    Jacqueline Gordon and Fish Catcher Jim say Amen and like this.
  15. I am sorry my brother but I am going to have to reject your thesis.

    The Christian is "Prepared" for the coming of Christ to remove His children before the A/C is revealed and before the Tribulation period. I do not say that on my own accord but instead because that is what the Bible teaches us.

    I Thessalonians 5:9 ..............
    "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ".

    What then is the "wrath" of God?

    Zephaniah 1:14-15 & 18..........
    "The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasenteth , even the voice of the day of the LORD: . . . 15: That day is a day of wrath, . . a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness, . . . 18: Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD's wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land".

    A close and deep study of the Scriptures show us that the word "Wrath" almost always refers to the anger of God against the unrighteous that results in punishment.

    The seven year period of Tribulation on earth right after the Rapture will be a time of God’s wrath on earth like never before. He will judge the nations and through this self-same judgment bring Israel back in faith believing.

    Rev. 6:17 says...............
    For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

    But concerning His bride, the Church, the Scriptures say in 1 Thess. 1:10......
    And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

    Then in Rev. 3:10 Jesus promised .........
    Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

    I appreciate your promises and I know you mean well, but I for one am going to stick with the promises Jesus made.
  16. Blessings Everyone
    Just wanted to make note that the thread is starting to get onto another topic of Rapture and such.

    Concerning the recent rash of threads getting heated on this topic I am asking that we get back on topic and leave the rapture to another thread.

    This is just a friendly reminder and not directed at any one or their postings.
    God Bless
    Jacqueline Gordon and Cturtle say Amen and like this.
  17. Twice my thread, "Just how much do you love and appreciate Jesus?",
    has failed to be posted for consideration and discussion.

    Heads up ... there are Christian forums out there which have an agenda,
    and which conduct "business" in favor of one opinion over another
    (both of which have plenty of Scripture to supposedly back them up).
  18. You are gonna have to help me here, what exactly are you saying? :rolleyes:.
  19. Agreed.
    But any good Christian worth their salt knows that the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine is unscriptural.
    A feel good doctrine for lazy Christians who have been told that their faith is not about overcoming tribulations, but rather all about
    enjoying untold blessings and gaining worldly wealth.
    Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow you will be raptured and not suffer anything bad. Totally unscriptural and also not in keeping with
    the history of Christians suffering much persecutions and death over the centuries. Many a Bible translator has been burned at the stake.

    Matthew 13:20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that hears the word, and immediately with joy receives it;
    13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but endures for a while: for when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word,
    by and by he is offended.
    13:22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that hears the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches,
    choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful.
    Jacqueline Gordon likes this.
  20. #20 Complete, Sep 3, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2016
    * Good references, Samuel.
    * Satan’s lie is that you do need to overcome sin!
    He would have us occupied with ourselves, and trying to achieve our own righteousness, as Israel did, instead of receiving the righteousness of God, which is imputed, or reckoned, to us in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    * The Lord Jesus Christ has already overcome sin. Sin no longer has dominion over us. What we do have to do is submit ourselves to God and resist the devil, and he will flee from us. Notice that submitting ourselves to God comes before resisting.

    * We have to believe God, and reckon on the completeness of the finished work of Christ, and rejoice in what He has accomplished for us, in and through His precious Son's death and resurrection.

    * God, who knows men’s hearts, and Who only can judge justly, must be the One to pass judgement, not you or I.
    * Our sins have been forgiven us, we have been declared, ‘not guilty’, in Christ Jesus. He has born our sins upon Himself, and died to pay it’s penalty. We are Complete in Christ. Accepted in the Beloved. In Him we are Holy and without blame before the Father. That is our ‘standing’ before God, and is unalterable.

    * However, we need to walk worthy of the Lord, but that is possible only by reckoning on the finished work of Christ. Acknowledging the we have died to sin in Christ Jesus, and living as those who are alive from the dead, as He is.

    * As you have pointed our, Samuel, if we do sin, we can confess our sin to Him, and He will forgive us our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness, but that is for our conscience sake, for God Himself has already forgiven us.
    * When asked the following question, ‘What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent. ‘ (Joh 6:28,29)

    * We believe God, and it is counted to us for righteousness, as Abraham did (Gal.3:6).
    * Yes, indeed. We are known by our fruits.
    * As a member of the Church which is His Body, I am assured that when the risen Christ appears in glory, so will the members of His Body appear with Him there.(Col.3:4). That is not what is termed ‘the rapture’, either.
    * Regarding our standing before God, Samuel, we are holy and without blame before Him. That is incontrovertible.

    * However day by day we can experience the washing of water by the Word, for each day as we walk in this world we absorb the ways and opinions of the world, and these the Word of God washes away, as we read and meditate upon it, in the Spirit.
    * Yes, we all need to be born from above, through faith in the all-sufficient sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ to know the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ as our Father too. How wonderful it is to know Him, to know that He has accepted us as ‘Sons’ because of the finished work of Christ, Samuel, isn’t it?
    * We will all have to give account of our walk and witness, and some have greater responsibility because of the positions of authority they hold, but only God knows our hearts, and therefore only He can judge justly.

    Thank you, Samuel.
    In Christ Jesus
    Jacqueline Gordon and Cturtle say Amen and like this.

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