OT israel = NT church?

Discussion in 'Biblical Advices' started by beforHim, Jun 5, 2008.

  1. OT israel = NT church?

    Always wondered this. Seems to me to be the same thing, but pretty much no one agrees with me. I want to study it a little, so some different views from different people will give me a starting point, a point of reference. My own view might be skewed all by itself.
  2. All scripture is given for reproof and for an example to us. The Old Testament is certainly full of types and shadows. I personally believe that if a man (or a Church) did not look at Israel and see some of itself in their they are not being honest or they are missing the boat. There are of course important differences the chiefest of these being the fulfillment of the Law by Christ and grace. The Old Covenant was the covenant of a servant and the New of a son.
    All that being said who amongst us has never seen God move for them and then turned around and responded in doubt at least once? Who amongst us was not chased the things of this world instead of the riches of Christ? I think we are much more like Old Covenant Israel than we would care to admit. Thank God for His mercy and grace.
  3. Your question is very broad, so I don't know specifically what you mean. The Old Covenant was the base for the bringing in of the New Covenant which is what God wanted to accomplish in his finality. As Bo said, the Old Covenant was loaded with symbols, types, and shadows of what was coming in the new.

    The two covenants overlapped by 40 years in which time was allowed for the transition of the believing remnant to move from the old to the new. This 40 years ran from about the time of the crucifixion to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD. After the 40 years, the old system was judged and the covenant was closed forever. No one lives under the Old Covenant today. So If you want to continue with the Tamid offerings each day (morning and evening sacrifices of a lamb) I hope you do it on your grille because it will do nothing for you in the spiritual realm.

    This is not to say that the Old Testament is dead and lifeless - quite the opposite as there is an absolute wealth of information there.
  4. some people use the old testament for there gain.Jesus is salvation .
  5. The Israel mentioned in the Old Testament is not just a representation of the New Testament Church, but also of the land of Israel itself. It depends on the verse. Certain verses in both the Old and New testament related to either/ or. The New Testament Church is us (Christians, The Saved, Chosen, Children of God, Sons of God, etc.), but this of course depends on the context of the verse.

    It would help if you had a couple verses!
  6. "After the Rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18), God will restore Israel as the primary focus of His plan. The first event at this time is the Great Tribulation (Revelation chapters 6-19). The world will be judged for rejecting Christ, while Israel is prepared through the trials of the Great Tribulation for the Second Coming of the Messiah. Then when Christ does return to the earth, at the end of the Tribulation, Israel will be ready to receive Him. The remnant of Israel which survives the Tribulation will be saved and the Lord will establish His kingdom on this earth with Jerusalem as its capital. With Christ reigning as King, Israel will be the leading nation, and representatives from all nations will come to Jerusalem to honor and worship the King—Jesus Christ. The Church will return with Christ and will reign with Him for a literal thousand years (Revelation 20:1-5)."

    Sooo, Worshipper, the thing I got outa' that site was that's the reason for the Second Coming, to give the Jews, His people a second chance? I didn't understand too much of anything else, hope I'm not off subject.
  7. God has not forgotten His promise to Israel!
  8. Well, that seems to be the modern generalization. But essentially, yes. Not because of made up facts. The media has greatly distorted peoples views of the Bible.

    Mathew 24, is a good starting point, because we find here the first mention of the 'Abomination of Desolation' in the New Testament, and we can concurrently progress from from this single chapter. I will try to write a little more here later!
  9. AMEN...Bo...

    (((((Sweet Surrender)))))) to answer your question...there are many scriptures that say that God has not given up on Israel; that Israel has not been replaced due to her disobedience but she has undergone continual fighting over the Eretz Israel all this time for her "stiff-necked" ways...this will continue until Jesus comes again, our Sar Shalom; Prince of Peace. Yes, scripture says that "all of Israel shall be saved".

    Isa 45:17

    But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation:
    ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
    Rom 11:26-33
    And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
    Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

  10. What is the OT and the NT stand for?
  11. OT= Old Testament (Covenant)
    NT= New Testament (Covenant)
  12. A lot of the writings of St. Paul were generated as responses to comments and letters from those he knew. Also, he answered the refutations of his enemies. One of the greatest refutations of Christianity in Paul's day, which was continually thrown into the faces of the Christians by the unbelieving Jews, was...

    "If Jesus was truely the Messiah then why wasn't all of Israel saved?" (As opposed to just the sect of the Christians)

    Paul wrote Romans in the winter of 57AD at Corinth. He is answering this charge.

    Romans 9:2-9 (NASB)
    ...that I have great sorrow and unceasing grief in my heart. [3] For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh, [4] who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises, [5] whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.
    [6] But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; [7] neither are they all children because they are Abraham's descendants, but: "through Isaac your descendants will be named." [8] That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants. [9] For this is a word of promise: "At this time I will come, and Sarah shall have a son."

    And so he is saying that all of Israel was saved because it is the children of promise and not genetics that makes you a citizen of the true Israel. Thus he answers the charge that Jesus was an impostor.
  13. Thx for all the answers everyone!

    Hence why I think they're the same. The "rules" might've looked different, but underneath, it was all the same- it's just that now we see with faces unveiled, as Paul puts it.
  14. Enjoy your study of this topic. It is one I also have interest in.

    As far as I can understand there are three general idea's of thought on this topic.

    One is the replacement theology, another is that Israel will become christian before the rapture and another is that Israel will be re-instated after the church is raptured.

    God has a plan for Israel and for His Church.

    When you are finished your study, please share your views with us.
  15. OT Israel =NT Church?

    I love Israel. I love them Jews.
    OT Israel is not any different from today's Israel. Their portion of covenants with Almighty God is still alive todate. Theirs is to keep the laws successfully, to which when Christ came to make softer summing it all in Himself, by faith they objected and Rejected Him. Then "As many as received Him to them gave He Power to become His Sons." I believe that we are adapted sons of God, who naturally fell for the enemy, the Devil. but God out of understanding and unconditional love bought us with a price. We are therefore sons adapted, but 'OT Israel' are rightfully the Household by which Christ Jesus was born biologically. Which is the geneological progression, and you know how much that is important, running down from Abraham -to King David and on.
    (However in The End Time, they do not appear very 'well placed'. And neither still does it look any much better for any group of people. Maybe the Church if raptured before the tribulations. -Sad to say so, but True) =Charles.

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