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Osas :

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Intojoy, Sep 17, 2013.

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  1. 8 But God commendeth his own love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from the wrath of God through him. 10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, shall we be saved by his life; 11 and not only so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation
     
  2. He saves from our sin and then saves us from ourselves again in order to keep us from walking away again and again and again.
     
    calvin likes this.
  3. Sadly I think Stan is gone.

    1 Tim 1:18-19 Timothy, my son, I am giving you this command in keeping with the prophecies once made about you, so that by recalling them you may fight the battle well, 19 holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and so have suffered shipwreck with regard to the faith.

    We are a flock of sheep with Jesus our shepherd. If one of us leaves, He does find us and returns us to the fold (y). But, should we start cannibalizing other sheep and basically transform ourselves into a wolf...? He removes us from the flock. We go 100% against our nature (n). Try picture making shipwreck of ship that is sailing in nice weather. You need to completely change direction and steer it into harsh weather. Maintaining course in that weather. Think of marriage, we can forgive our spouse for many sins. Even follow them to another country. But we can do nothing about them changing their hearts desire by continuing in adultery. Repentance can never be sincere. God forgives us 7 x 70 times a day for sincere repentance only.

    Would you say that God stops us from committing adultery on Him? God forces us to stay loyal even when we don't want to? Would you do that to your spouse? Adultery is terrible, but you would be in the wrong to kill / kidnap / over-ride their free will to change their hearts desire. God is good to the maximum and a good God gives us true free will even in marriage.

    The only time OSAS is sealed is when we leave this earth.

    The strongest logic argument for OSAS in my opinion is...what of those that get saved and then die immediately / early thereby escaping temptations that us who remain face. Temptations that could lead us astray. Well God knows the depth of our desire when we first get saved. If God had any doubt that we would not stay as one of His sheep in His flock, He would keep us living. God is 100% certain of the dedication and love for Him of all who go to heaven.
     
  4. Your questions concerning living according to sinful lusts are best asked in a different context my friend. Salvation is free, becoming a disciple is at a cost to us. Anyone who would live godly will suffer. If you know of Christians who are spiritually as bad as your question of sinning willfully then I would suggest that they be shown the true gospel of grace which will produce a change in them. If they never change, they've never accepted the true gospel IMO.
     
  5. There is no such thing as absolute free will. But God gives more grace.

    If I don't believe in eternal security then my focus is not on the cross but on my righteousness in stead.

    If I don't believe in eternal security then I am offering man an incomplete salvation that starts with grace but relies on self to maintain salvation just as the cults believe.

    Because I believe in eternal security I have peace with the Father and am passed from death unto life, all things have become new, He has perfected forever those whom He sanctified.
     
  6. There are just too many warnings in scripture to ignore. Like this one 1 Cor 10:12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!

    Nobody tells a couple that just got married about the possibility of divorce. It is not mentioned in the vows unless we have one of these modern weddings that say ''until our love runs out'' :oops:. God, from His side, promises to never leave nor forsake us. He is the perfect partner, that is our confidence. I don't completely disagree with your thinking of ''once 'truly' saved always saved''. You get Christian cruise-liners and then speed-boats.

    Trying to fully grasp God is mind blowing :). Scripture says He is impartial. We have to believe He is impartial to the maximum. Not assume that because He is sovereign and omniscient that He is not.
     
    calvin likes this.
  7. Yet He self imposed limitations upon His very sovereignty
     
  8. If OSAS was true there would have been no need for the many warnings to avoid heresy, not to loose faith, fight the good fight, etc. Paul would not have been concerned with running the good race to the finish, for if OSAS was true, the day he believed then the race was over. OSAS does in no way fit with scripture.
     

  9. Paul's definition of heresy: salvation by laws/works and mingling grace with works.

    Christians with mental illnesses have lost faith in the sense of dementia.

    Paul nowhere taught that salvation is the reward of competition/racing.

    Your arguments are all based on the human element of salvation. The bible is clear that there is no human element in salvation, "it is not of ourselves."
     
  10. Some examples of OSAS:
    Samson
    David
    Solomon
    Ananias
    Jonah
    Moses
    And everyone else.
     
  11. Why does this OSAS debate refuse to go away?
    Shipwrecks..........Yes.....the world watched as the Concordia was righted in preparation for its salvation. So does shipwreck necessarily mean total irretrievable loss? But looking at the TV footage of the Concordia, wow! what a mess!
    If Jesus was handling the salvage project we should be certain that the ship would be fully restored.

    Most of the passages quoted that supposedly refute OSAS, are mostly taken out of context IMO.
    Here is what Jesus says about salvation security:
    John 10:22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30.
    22 At that time the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was walking in the temple, in the colonnade of Solomon. 24 So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.” 25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me,1 is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
    Jesus says that no one will snatch His sheep out of His hand. That even means that I can't wriggle and squirm out of His saving grasp (not that I want to mind you):D. But there is a qualifying here....... Jesus is referring to those who hear His voice and follow Him. He is not referring to those with closed hearts, those who reject Him, those who refuse to acknowledge His Lordship.

    KingJ also said:
    Reading that passage in context shows that God will not be mocked. The examples Paul refers to did not make it to the promised land for example, but there is no mention of them being fed into the 'hoppers of hell'. We should learn from their experiences....that is why the matter was written down, but we should not ever go beyond what has been written IMO.

    KingJ, don't you think that the possibility of divorce is sort of embodied in the marriage ceremony?
    Why would the minister say things like "to love honor and obey till death..." and " in sickness and health, for richer or for poorer", and what God has joined let not man put asunder" Do these not foresee the possibility of divorce?
    These things are said because of the sinfulness of man. But when it comes to the marriage of the Lamb and His bride, there is no sin component to worry about.
    OK so I'll get off my soap box :)
     
    Major and JustPassingThru say Amen and like this.
  12. I have asked this question many times to those that believe they can lose their salvation, no one has been able to answer it.

    Jesus taught us He would send to us the Holy Spirit and He would live inside of forever.

    And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever. John 14:16

    I think we all agree that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit, so we don't need to belabor that fact, here's the scenario and the question:

    If a person that is truly born again, has the Holy Spirit living inside of them, and they could some how lose their salvation, picture this, after their turn at the Great White Throne Judgment they are cast into the Lake of Fire, there are two possibilities,

    1. The Holy Spirit that goes with them is not God.
    2. Jesus Christ is a liar and the Holy Spirit leaves us.

    Which one is it?



    A superfluous reading of Heb 6:4-6 usually assumes that the author is talking about salvation - sōtēria, but that is not the word used in the text, the word is repentance - metanoia, they cannot be renewed again to repentance, Paul talks about this to Timothy concerning those that have listened to false teachings and have ultimately fell into the devil's trap, being used by him rather than being used by Jesus Christ,

    ...In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will. 2Ti 2:25, 26

    ...notice it says that they are opposing themselves and that perhaps God will grant them the repentance, it's not like when we heard the Gospel and decided ourselves to repent, or when the Holy Spirit convicts us of a habit or attitude in our lives and we decide we want to repent and ask the Lord to cleanse us, they have fallen into the trap of the devil and are being used by him, they have repeatedly resisted the Holy Spirit, refused to be taught by the Holy Spirit, they have itching ears and run after every wave of new false doctrine the sweeps across the face of the planet, ...Paul teaches they have quenched the Holy Spirit in their lives and they will have to receive a jump start from God before they can even awake from the drunken stupor they are in.

    There are many references to this scattered through Jesus' teachings, so that is why it's so important to make sure we are being taught by the Holy Spirit and not some man.

    Blessings,

    Gene
     
  13. As it is clear to me that there is absolutely no interest or attempt to actually learn anything but instead to attempt to force views on others, I'm ending this topic. Let it rest for a while.
     
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