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Original Sin

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by jtb1991, Jan 14, 2008.

  1. Original Sin

    It is popular beleive in the church-world that infants are born sinful and it's God's grace that covers them if they die in infancy.

    First, let's look at Genesis and look at the curses.

    Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
    Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
    Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
    Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
    Gen 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
    Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
    Gen 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
    Gen 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
    Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever:
    Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

    1 - The Serpent's Curse: The serpent was cursed above all cattle, having to slither on it's stomach (being as it was used by Satan).

    2: The Woman's Curse: There are varied opinions about the first part of verse 16, I will hold to two of them (which are most feasible, using facts). First, "multiply thy sorrows" could be used in context of the menstrual cycles meaning Eve herself could have had them more often... "and thy conception" could be referring to the fact that women now have to deal with various problems like it being harder for some women to conceive, and also barrenness as well as babies dying at birth, and women dying during a babies birth. I beleive that was one of the curses. Then of course, it will hurt to bear children! Then it goes on to say in the verse "and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee". Right now I'm going to deal with "and thy desire shall be to thy husband" and leave "and he shall rule over thee." for later (in the Man's curse section). Ok "and thy desire shall be to thy husband"... so according to Biblical order men are over women (not in intelligence or superiority... but just "rank" I guess you could call it.)

    I forget what verse it is, but either Paul or Peter talks about it when he says that men were created verse, therefor women do not hold the "top" position (in terms of human existence). In that verse I beleive that "thy desire shall be to thy husband" isn't talking about sexual desire (because how can that be a curse? :confused: )... rather it's talking about the desire of position. Now women will be tempted to try and take over the position of the man!

    3: The Man's Curse: "cursed is the ground for thy sake" this literally puts the Earth under a curse. Therefor explaining earthquakes, floods, hurricanes, etc. These natural disasters is the Earth groaning, in my opinion. And now instead of eating out of the garden, he must sweat and work with the strength of his back for his food. Gen 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return." Now back to "and he shall rule over thee". We have already discussed that the women shall want to have dominion over her husband. But now we'll discuss the other part. Now man will easily get angry at the women's usurpment and now he himself will be tempted to angrily misuse her.

    "Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
    Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."

    Lastly he drove them away from the garden. The tree of life just seconds away where they could eat and be healed, live forever! But because of eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil they are being banned from the Garden of Eden.

    Now we know the curses upon the earth and it's inhabitants. Was the curse that man's children would be inherently sinful part of that? No. If you think about original sin, you will realize it's just not Biblical. Babies being sinful? They've done nothing sinful, they are innocent. Yes, because of influences around them sometimes they are copycats and copy things (not knowing they are bad) and thus seem evil sometimes. Also they act on mere wants. Infants, toddlers and the like act on mere wants and don't think about the consequences or rightness or wrongness of their actions. As a child grows older their conscience begins working and they, being human, will ultimately choose to sin. This age is called the age of accountability. For different kids it's different times depending on age. I'd guess around 7 or so...

    Yes, God does hear a toddler's prayers and He IS with them. But he doesn't hold them accountable for what they don't understand.

    A lot of people use "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception" and say this supports that babies are sinful. But think, if it was on the part of the woman then Mary would've passed it down to Jesus! That can't work! And if it was passed on by the man... but... wait... you know what? It doesn't say anything remotely similar about man's curse.

    I hope this doesn't stir up too much arguing. I just wanted to point this out.
     
  2. Good post, babies are not held accountable to the law, therefore they are not condemned. God loves the children:israel:
     

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