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Original sin (keep friendly)

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Fish_of_Faith, Feb 17, 2015.

  1. The devil was one of God's favourites in heaven. We may all be aware that the devil wanted the same or more power/control than God. The devil wasn't happy and was cast out of heaven.
    Let's face it, Satan has such cunning that he deceived the two people who should have been most faithful to God.
    How did he get Eve to eat the forbidden fruit?
    The devil knew how to, he lied (his main weapon) - Eve hadn't heard a lie, so how do you react - she took it as the truth and that God would not know.
    Adam fell for the lie Eve told - the question I ask is this?
    Should we draw any comparison between the devil and Eve?
    She did lie to Adam and trick him...
  2. Wasn't Adam standing right there with eve when the devil was talking to her? If so then all she did was hand Adam the fruit, no one deceived him, he flat out disobeyed.
    Abdicate and CCW95A say Amen and like this.
  3. According to my understanding, Adam wasn't originally aware of the devil speaking to Eve - she then attracted Adam's attention and deceived him. Perhaps he was looking the other way?
  4. My own understanding is this... the devil knowing that Adam who had a long and daily fellowship directly with God could easily hush his deceit and place a punishment on him went for the one whom he felt was easy prey "eve". After she ate the fruit i'm sure out of excitement of the new found knowledge she acquired and seeing she didnt physically die she must have offered it to Adam not to deceive him but to experience what she too felt... also having proof cos she had eaten and was still standing in front of him... I'm guessing in her mind she was even thinking God was the deceiver trying to prevent them from good things then regretted after the deed had been done... i relate it to children, when u try to prevent them from making a mistake that will ruin their lives they look @ you as a kill joy..
  5. We must take from what happened in Eden - don't let the slippery worm (Satan) deceive us but to challenge him with the powerful words of God.
    Cturtle likes this.
  6. Lucifer (pre-Satan) is extremely interesting because there are a few perspectives on his train if thought...

    One is that he was jealous of God and wanted equal or greater status. The other is that he was never jealous of God, but that he was jealous of man and refused to look at them as subjects to help and serve through service to God. Either one seems plausible since his sin was pride. It could also easily be both.

    Some people believe that Satan is the opposite of God, but of course that's not true. God's omnipotence speaks volumes of His power beyond someone like Satan. Although St. Michael, the archangel is Satan's opposite. Both were at archangel status in heaven before Lucifer's fall.

    Our understanding is that Eve's sin was blatant disobedience. She wasn't under the impression that the fruit didn't come from the tree -- she knew. And after she took a bite, she seduced Adam into eating it too, which he also knew.

    Eve was tricked into believing that she would be like a goddess for eating the fruit, so trickery was involved, and I can only imagine pride too. But Adam and Eve were aware of what they were eating and that it was wrong -- which is why they ran and tried to hide.

    Even God gave them a shot at redemption. He asked Adam a simple question "Where are you?" Adam said how he ran and his because they were naked. God further asked how he could have had this understanding, and instead of coming forward and saying "we disobeyed, please forgive us," he tried turning things around on God by saying "The woman you gave to be my companion, she gave me the fruit."

    My favorite part of the passage is where God said to the serpent, "I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel." Under my belief, we recognize this as the first direct reference to what is to come in the Gospel.
  7. That's very interesting.
    If Adam and Eve didn't sin during their life, how do you think the world would have turned out?
  8. I would like to put faith in humanity, but someone would have gave in eventually and sinned. If not we would be in the garden still enjoying heaven on earth, basically. If we read the Lord's prayer, it was His intent for the earth to be like heaven.
  9. Pride/self was what fuel Lucifer to transgress against God He fed the same vile garbage into Eve (Wouldn't you be like Him?) and Adam followed this was the first sin. Because there can be no accountability for sin when there is no law (Rom 5:13) . They were told NOT to eat of that tree. This was the only law/command given. All sin we see as so many are all just branches connected to the same evil root where it began.............self ..... which there is no cure except........ Jesus!
    JG27_chili likes this.
  10. Some thoughts of mine on the topic: http://books.fether.net/index.php?theBook=NIC&theChap=2

    Some interesting things to note:

    1. Adam's exclamation when Eve was created was about her similarity to him, not the biological differences.

    2. Eve was created to be the ezer kenegdo to Adam--- a strong ally, a partner, one who comes to another's aid. This was not merely to help out tending the garden, or even to co-rule over nature, but it would be her "seed" and not the man's who would truly come to his aid. Yet few ask why, and fewer still recognize this as God actually honoring Eve. Not for sinning, of course, but for being the victim of "beguiling".

    3. While God said to both Adam and the serpent, "Because you have done this", God did not say it to Eve. He simply said she would "turn" to her husband, who would then rule over her. Not a curse, not "because", but a prediction of Eve's choice when Adam was driven out.

    4. Adam did indeed hear Eve's voice while she was tempted, and scripture does not even hint of her saying anything to Adam at any time in the whole exchange. Adam knew what was happening, did nothing to stop it, ate the fruit without even having to be beguiled, and then blamed God for Eve. This is why sin is laid at his feet alone. Note the references to "the ground" regarding the fact that only Adam was made from it, as were the animals, and that the whole world was cursed on his account alone. We should also note that Eve was made from Adam only after Adam had become a living soul.

    5. God had said that when they ate the fruit they would die. So why did God add extra penalties after he confronted them? Both had already become mortal and aware of their nakedness, so why were more consequences added? Because Adam blamed God, and this was an act of rebellion rather than being inexperienced with deception. Adam, who had known that God created him and thus would not be fooled into thinking he could be like God (which is why Eve was targeted by the serpent, since she was the last thing created), had no excuses.
  11. God turned to the serpent not Adam.

    Gen 3:13
    Don't downplay what Eve did, Adam and Eve sinned that day. He didn't honor Eve at all. You are adding to things that aren't there.
  12. Gen. 3:17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’

    I have not downplayed anything. I said she ate the fruit. And if providing the Savior from only Eve isn't honoring her, then "honor" doesn't mean what you think it means.

    You are subtracting things that are there. I could give you a command like you gave me: Do not ignore the additional sin of Adam (rebellion against God without any excuse), and the fact that the Saviour would only come from Eve and not Adam.

    The OP says to keep it friendly. I suggest you refrain from any accusatory tone with those who disagree with you.
  13. There was no tone in my statement. I will back off since you can't discuss something without getting upset
    Waggles likes this.
  14. All I'm saying is that's how you came across. If I misunderstood your intent, I apologize.

    And I'm not upset. Trust me, I've been in places that are no-holds-barred and can hold my own in the face of hostility.
    Where is the Messiah and LanceA say Amen and like this.
  15. No problem, the internet is an obstacle when trying to say something without coming across as being rude or argumentative. The first thing we need to decide before posting is it out of Love or out of some other motive. Not saying your posting isn't out of Love, just a comment in general for all of us.
    Fish_of_Faith likes this.
  16. And if I came across that way I apologize as well.
    Where is the Messiah and Relentless say Amen and like this.
  17. Excellent teamwork in resolving this issue. I was debating closing it - but you have worked the situation out.
    Where is the Messiah, Ravindran, Holycaves and 3 others say Amen and like this.
  18. I think nothing would have changed! As per Revelation, we will spend eternity in new earth. My take is, it would be very similar (or even better) compared to Garden of Eden. It would be, how it all started.
  19. #20 CCW95A, Feb 17, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2015
    1Tim 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

    Adam simply knew what not to do, but did it anyway. This is sin. Adam sinned by not doing what he should have done by protecting Eve, and then Adam sinned again by doing what he should not have done.

    Jas 4:16 But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil.
    Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
    Cturtle likes this.

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