Ongoing Inner Conflict

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by netchaplain, May 29, 2013.

  1. It is essential that we take a moment to consider the inward conflict of the growing child of God. It may be said, “What if a man knows his sins to be forgiven and more, liberty” (which some call “sanctification,” “deeper life,” etc.), “then, surely, every spiritual desire must be gratified, and thenceforward, till heaven be gained, there can be nothing more to be wished for it.​

    In things spiritual, as in things natural, when children have grown up to manhood, to ripe age, or, as Scripture says, are “perfect,” they do not find that thenceforward there is nothing to do, nothing to suffer. Quite the contrary; in one sense they may be said to begin life only when perfect. Until the great and terrible “I” be held by grace to have been crucified with Christ, the believer can hardly be said to have begun to live the new life in its liberty; but liberty obtained, inner conflict is certain to be entered into.

    Before we were brought into Christian liberty, the enabling of the indwelling Spirit was not known, but, being delivered from the thrall of the old man, we are in the moral position which should gain the victory day by day. Not that the position itself is victory—it is the vantage ground for victory; freedom from the domination of sin is obtained by the Spirit. Still, it is no little good to know what the vantage ground is, and a greater thing to occupy that ground.

    The Spirit of God dwelling within us energizes the desire of the new life which He has implanted in us. He leads to humility, gentleness, and courage, and all in a divine way. We do not mean such qualities apart from the Spirit, which in that case may be merely traits of the Adamic life.

    When our old man stirs us up to desire its old things, the Spirit of God does not remain passive in us, but occasions conflict within: “For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would” (Gal 5:17). He restrains the believer from doing the things which the flesh likes, and constrains him to do the things which the Father loves, and effects this by acting upon the new man. The believer is not, and never will be, free from having sin in him in this world; nor will he be free from the danger of committing any kind of evil: and he is never, practically, safe except when he realizes his weakness, and walks in dependence upon the Holy Spirit.

    Should he say, “I cannot help doing evil,” then he denies the Spirit of God in him as the enablement for righteous living, and remains in the mire of sin. Should he say, “I am holy, or spiritual, or heavenly,” and in his heart think of what he is in himself, then it is the old man at work in another and more dangerous form, and he has denied the Spirit of God in His ability to produce spirituality, and heavenly mindedness. This last is worse than the first, for the first is unbelief in God and the last is belief in himself. The truth is, there is constant conflict proceeding within the growing child of God, and the Spirit is continually restraining from evil, as well as leading to good.

    The flesh in its pride would say, “I can live to God by means of law-keeping and religious observances”; and the flesh in its lusts would say, “I am safe for eternity, and thus can live for myself.” The new life the Father has given us has no affinity for either the one or the other of these evils, and the Spirit of God opposes the flesh in each.

    – HF Witherby
    Major likes this.
  2. Please...who is Witherby and where is this extract taken from?
  3. Oh...I see this is copied to many Christian forums, so chances are it's you!
  4. Witherby is one of many dispensational writers whose material is used by contemporary dispensational writers.
    Major and Mr. Darby say Amen and like this.
  5. Yeah...but where is your source, your link to his works...? Is it copyrighted? Have you permission to use his materials?
  6. Wasn't he also an Oxford scholar ?
  7. So where were your extracts form, what book?

    I've looked online and the only "HF Witherby" was a British ornithologist (bird specialist)....

    You say he was a Darbyist? What books did you get these extracts from?
  8. An elementary Google search produced this:
    2."The Book of Joshua," by H. F. Witherby, is quite in line with Mr. Mackintosh's work and a good introduction to this important and little understood book. It is particularly rich in its unfolding of what we might call "Ephesian truth."
    The above quote can be found at :
    7. "The Glories of Christ as seen in the Tabernacle," by H. F. Witherby, brief but lucid.
    The above quote can be found at :
    There may be, most probably are more references out there.
    There are sure to be books and other publications that are not documented on any web site.
    Major likes this.
  9. Major likes this.
  10. Netchaplain, while it may seem that some are a bit exuberant about this, I feel I need to explain why there is so much concern. Copyright laws regarding posting full quotes on the Internet have traditionally weighed very heavy in favor of the copyright owner. As such, without proper written permission, or proof of Fair Use, it is actually illegal to copy and paste things like this (despite how common the practice has become). The copyright holder has a potentially legitimate claim to file a lawsuit and be guaranteed a win. I know many sites aren't very concerned about this, but we try to keep everything on the up and up. It is a violation of our Christian witness to knowingly violate the law. The general rule of thumb is that you can link to the original source material without any problems, and while you could use a citation to prove you aren't plagiarizing, copyright laws require permission. The easiest fix her would be to post a link and provide a synopsis.
    Rusty likes this.
  11. Nearly all of the materials authored by dispensational writers are public domain. I have yet to see their materials copyrighted and most of these writers do not have a web site and is accessed through other writers . All the materials I post are within other writers which quoted by other dispensationalists (most of this material is crica 15-mid 1800's). The sources I use are purchased from and the perticular material of your inquiry is within books published by Miles Stanford entitled "The Position Papers: A Spiritual Anthology" vol. 1.

    Hi Banarenth - Thanks for the concerns of the legal matters concerning copyright laws, of which I'm familiar; and also thanks for your and the others labors with the site. God's blessings to your Families. <><
    Major likes this.
  12. NC, Thank YOU for bringing us these treasures from days gone by.
    Major likes this.
  13. Yes........I agree!

    Wonderful teachings from great men of God!
  14. I would in general terms follow the broad lines of dispensational viewpoints, such as espoused by men such as Darby and Scofield.

    It's helpful to distinguish the different dealings with men than God has had, whether with Israel, the church, and the nations.
    Major and Mr. Darby say Amen and like this.
  15. This has been my point for months and I'm pleased you have brought this up.

    NetChaplain has, IMO, been quite clear on this issue and I always appreciate a gentlemanly response, "Hat's off"
  16. Major likes this.
  17. I think the main concerns come from verification. Honestly, it is the responsibility of the poster to prove to some level of satisfaction that copyright laws have been observed. If the staff has to check every reference ourselves, then basically, I have to check every reference myself, and I'd rather just ban the practice completely because we can't continue to police it like that. So, if we are going to allow it, we must ask the posters to exercise due diligence. If it is cited with the proper copyright/pubdomain info, then nothing else needs to be said that distracts from the flow of the topic.
    Rusty likes this.
  18. Precisely, B. And when members are unsure if the words are those of the member or not, then it really gets confusing.
  19. Thanks to all who compliment the materials I post and I too continue to grow from them and thank the Lord so much for them.
    Major likes this.

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