On Richness and Poverty

[Fish Catcher Jim]

If we give 1000 ferrari sized gifts we should still not desire our own ferrari though. A ferrari sized gift for us ''should'' be ''feeding an orphan''.

That fancy suit should not be our hearts desire. Think it through. Why would we desire a fancy suit? Albeit a gift. I can honestly see no reason other then carnal pleasure from and for it.

We are all guilty of pursuing and hording carnal treasures. When we have them they do cause pride. Not they ''may''. They '''doooo''' .

Kj can you explain this to me please for I just do not understand what you mean
If we give 1000 ferrari sized gifts we should still not desire our own ferrari though. A ferrari sized gift for us ''should'' be ''feeding an orphan''.

So for those who like fancy or nice stuff it is carnal pleasure as in sin? Is this what you are saying because I find no placve in His word telling us we can not have or desire such things but i do find is God telling us to NOT make this our number one priority but make Him and His ways number one.

 

[Arrie03]

Amen and lets dig itno this "Love of Money" a little deeper.
Scripture says the the love of money is the root of all evil. Ever wonder why?
To love after money means it is the very most important thing in your life. You will kill to keep it or get it you will do what ever it takes and step on who ever you must and use this money as power to get your way.

You become driven with a crazed desire consumed with the need for money and it is yours and no one helped you and no one tells you what to do with it. This is the type of person who has a hard time coming into the kingdom of God and not simply a rich wealthy man.

Does this sound about right Curtis ?
Blessings
Jim

Agreed. And this goes for anything else that we may firm an unhealthy desire over. A car, house, jewellery, entertainment systems, clothes, cell phones. In fact, we can go on and on.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Also a good point.
I think we are all disagreeing over something that has a very fine line, but at the end of the day what matters is that we judge not another's heart. We just do not know enough.

Amen a million times over amen

 

[Arrie03]

Actually, Jesus commended the rich young man for the good he did and told him he lacked one thing yet. He was not willing to give up that one thing to follow Jesus. That is why Jesus said it is difficult for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Simple, his riches was above his will to follow Jesus.
And this goes with anything we put above God, anything.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Agreed. And this goes for anything else that we may firm an unhealthy desire over. A car, house, jewellery, entertainment systems, clothes, cell phones. In fact, we can go on and on.

Exactly..........you know that old tv comercial..." what is in your wallet" Well what is in your heart ? If God and His ways are first then you must be walking upright in HIM and so if you desire something how couldit be wrong especially if God says Yes and gives it to you.

 

[Arrie03]

Why do you go right to these things with this scripture Mykuhl ? When it says God gives us the desires of oour heart it is not saying God gives us what ever we desire or wish or want but it does say that our desires now will be from God or Godly desires.

Seeking God first means living and doing life His way. Then these things such as new house or car or clothes or spouse and so forth will be added which is always a blessing or Blessed.
Another words our mind and heart is fixed on God and not our needs.

Jim, I do not think he is wrong.
Point is people do not get it. That's why some use the scripture incorrectly.
I agree, if we really follow Jesus, our desires changes away from ourselves and focuses on the kingdom of God.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

1. Every Christian that buys a Ferrari?

2. Explain to me how owning over the top items do not cause pride / are not from pride?

All I have heard is '' I have one and that was a gift''. Well that is not answering my question. Saying I am judging others is also not helping. I am not exempt here. Though I am not a pastor that should know better either. But I guess no Christian has an excuse really.

Kj you said
2. Explain to me how owning over the top items do not cause pride / are not from pride?

Kj that is so simple............The Christian who is walking with God does NOT allow pride of things to enter into their being and God knows this and so God gives unto them. Not all people struggle with pride or lust or guilt and so forth.

In so many of your post you bring up taking care of orphans for life. This is a good thing BUT NOT thee most important thing we will do as Chrtistians. So if a persontakes care of orphans and still buys a nice car and not someused one then they are wrong. How can this be Brother KJ ?

 

[Euphemia]

1. Every Christian that buys a Ferrari?

Nonsense.

2. Explain to me how owning over the top items do not cause pride / are not from pride?

Sometimes coming into possession of something extremely valuable in the eyes of people in general is not a purchase from pride or greed, but can be a great deal or a gift. For the strong believer, it is a blessing, and appreciated more than by those who buy it out of greed.

All I have heard is '' I have one and that was a gift''. Well that is not answering my question. Saying I am judging others is also not helping. I am not exempt here. Though I am not a pastor that should know better either. But I guess no Christian has an excuse really.

Pastors are people, too.

 

[Euphemia]

I read this thread title and I thought of Fiddler on the Roof - If I Were a Rich Man.

LOL! I thought, "Pride and Prejudice"!

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Jim, I do not think he is wrong.

Point is people do not get it. That's why some use the scripture incorrectly.

I agree, if we really follow Jesus, our desires changes away from ourselves and focuses on the kingdom of God.

Arrie I was simply saying that the scripture is in reference to those who are seeking God and walking in His ways then their desires or hearts desires are from God and so then what we desire is good for it started with God and this can also be a house or a car as well but not limited to these things for sure.

Some people use this scripture ( Not referring to Mykuhl ) as means to attack those who walk by faith as if they are a bunch of mindless self centered wanna be christians going around claiming they have the right to get God to give them any old thing they want. This form of gosip spreads all through the world both in the Body and secular. It ends up hurting others through its twisted logic and lies and there is purpose in this........satans purpose.

Then innocent Christians come along and here this and begin to speak it as if it is the Gospel unto us. You can see this all the time. My point was only to what the scripture means and any one walking with in the ways of God will not user this scripture as some speak three wish lamp to rub. lol

Blessings Arrie
Jim

 

[/]

LOL! I thought, "Pride and Prejudice"!

Haha - I see what you mean.

 

[Mykuhl]

Arrie I was simply saying that the scripture is in reference to those who are seeking God and walking in His ways then their desires or hearts desires are from God and so then what we desire is good for it started with God and this can also be a house or a car as well but not limited to these things for sure.

Some people use this scripture ( Not referring to Mykuhl ) as means to attack those who walk by faith as if they are a bunch of mindless self centered wanna be christians going around claiming they have the right to get God to give them any old thing they want. This form of gosip spreads all through the world both in the Body and secular. It ends up hurting others through its twisted logic and lies and there is purpose in this........satans purpose.

Then innocent Christians come along and here this and begin to speak it as if it is the Gospel unto us. You can see this all the time. My point was only to what the scripture means and any one walking with in the ways of God will not user this scripture as some speak three wish lamp to rub. lol

Blessings Arrie
Jim

Jim, all I am really questioning is the position of the heart of those that desire all these fancy over the top expensive things. I am asking this: would someone that is truly seeking first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and delighting themselves in the Lord and walking therein desire these things? To be honest with you, I don't know. I personally am not there yet. At this point in my walk, I will admit that it would be nice to have all those fancy things...so that means that yes I do desire them to a degree. Would my desires completely change when I become a mature Christian? I don't know, but I suspect that they would. I say this because I am finding that the more I mature as a Christian, the less these material things attract me.

 

[Arrie03]

Arrie I was simply saying that the scripture is in reference to those who are seeking God and walking in His ways then their desires or hearts desires are from God and so then what we desire is good for it started with God and this can also be a house or a car as well but not limited to these things for sure.

Some people use this scripture ( Not referring to Mykuhl ) as means to attack those who walk by faith as if they are a bunch of mindless self centered wanna be christians going around claiming they have the right to get God to give them any old thing they want. This form of gosip spreads all through the world both in the Body and secular. It ends up hurting others through its twisted logic and lies and there is purpose in this........satans purpose.

Then innocent Christians come along and here this and begin to speak it as if it is the Gospel unto us. You can see this all the time. My point was only to what the scripture means and any one walking with in the ways of God will not user this scripture as some speak three wish lamp to rub. lol

Blessings Arrie
Jim

So we all talking about the same thing then. Cool.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Jim, all I am really questioning is the position of the heart of those that desire all these fancy over the top expensive things. I am asking this: would someone that is truly seeking first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and delighting themselves in the Lord and walking therein desire these things? To be honest with you, I don't know. I personally am not there yet. At this point in my walk, I will admit that it would be nice to have all those fancy things...so that means that yes I do desire them to a degree. Would my desires completely change when I become a mature Christian? I don't know, but I suspect that they would. I say this because I am finding that the more I mature as a Christian, the less these material things attract me.

I agree with this and as we grow Our priorities change and yet we also begin to learn more and more find out what God has to say about these things.
Blessings Mykuhl and have a great day

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

So we all talking about the same thing then. Cool.

well maybe not all............

 

[Arrie03]

Jim, all I am really questioning is the position of the heart of those that desire all these fancy over the top expensive things. I am asking this: would someone that is truly seeking first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and delighting themselves in the Lord and walking therein desire these things? To be honest with you, I don't know. I personally am not there yet. At this point in my walk, I will admit that it would be nice to have all those fancy things...so that means that yes I do desire them to a degree. Would my desires completely change when I become a mature Christian? I don't know, but I suspect that they would. I say this because I am finding that the more I mature as a Christian, the less these material things attract me.

I guess we all have to be honest with ourselves regarding desires. I see you are asking the right questions though. Let's focus on ourselves and love for the kingdom of our Heavenly Father. Then the world will be better, regardless of the guy driving the Ferrari.
We should have desires, how else would you desire a better relationship with YHVH. If your car is falling apart, can desiring a better one be evil?
But as I said, there is a thin line of overstep that puts us in the wrong.

God bless you all, bed time for me.

 

[KingJ]

1. Nonsense.

2. Sometimes coming into possession of something extremely valuable in the eyes of people in general is not a purchase from pride or greed, but can be a great deal or a gift. For the strong believer, it is a blessing, and appreciated more than by those who buy it out of greed.

3. Pastors are people, too.

1. It is nonsense that the cost of a Ferrari does not equal a Toyota plus helping an orphan or two or three for life?
2. The strong believer will not give two hoots about a carnal treasure. If they knew it causes pride in others they will sell it.
3. Not everyone should be pastors, for a reason.

It is clear that you and I disagree 100% on this. I don't think another 1000 pages will change that.

 

[KingJ]

1. Kj can you explain this to me please for I just do not understand what you mean
If we give 1000 ferrari sized gifts we should still not desire our own ferrari though. A ferrari sized gift for us ''should'' be ''feeding an orphan''.

2. So for those who like fancy or nice stuff it is carnal pleasure as in sin? Is this what you are saying because I find no placve in His word telling us we can not have or desire such things but i do find is God telling us to NOT make this our number one priority but make Him and His ways number one.

1. The joy from feeding an orphan > ownership pride from a Ferrari.
2. Good Christian = Toyota / Ok Christian = BMW / Naughty Christian = Ferrari .
Good Christian = no $550 suits / Ok Christian = 2-3 $550 suits / naughty Christian = only $550 suits.

 

[KingJ]

Kj you said
2. Explain to me how owning over the top items do not cause pride / are not from pride?

1. Kj that is so simple............The Christian who is walking with God does NOT allow pride of things to enter into their being and God knows this and so God gives unto them. Not all people struggle with pride or lust or guilt and so forth.

2. In so many of your post you bring up taking care of orphans for life. This is a good thing BUT NOT thee most important thing we will do as Christians. So if a person takes care of orphans and still buys a nice car and not some used one then they are wrong. How can this be Brother KJ ?

1. The good Christian is always mindful of how they affect / influence / stumble others. They are not living for themselves.

2. I will never buy a rubbish car. We need reliability and an 'aircon'. We should also come across to others as someone who looks after our possessions. So clean and well maintained car. But we should not go anywhere near being boastful or having the appearance of being boastful.

 

[KingJ]

Also a good point.
I think we are all disagreeing over something that has a very fine line, but at the end of the day what matters is that we judge not another's heart. We just do not know enough.

If we see a pastor living an 'over the top' luxury life I think we do know enough.

Have you watched ''Machine gun preacher''? Watch that and you will see exactly where the heart of many pastors is.