"O Day Star or Lucifer" Isaiah 14:12 [Translations]

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Mr. Adam, Nov 25, 2014.

  1. Isaiah 14:12 "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer..."(KJV)
    Isaiah 14:12 "How are you fallen from heaven, O Day star..."(ESV)
    Ok, we have two significant differences in here. That can be completely confused with. I want y'all's thoughts/ideas. Is this a "perversion" in modern translations, or just a better translation? Are people blowing this out of proportion? What's the actual translations say?
  2. 12 How hast thou fallen from the heavens, O shining one, son of the dawn! Thou hast been cut down to earth, O weakener of nations.
    Young's literal translation
  3. I wouldn't call it a "perversion", just differing interpretation.

    Lucifer means "light maker" literally, so it's not a bad translation of "shining one".
    Don't make too much of it.
    And yes, people tend to blow everything out of proportion.
  4. I completely agree with the fact things are easily blown out of proportion.
    But when you take scriptures like 2nd Peter 2: 19, or Revalations 22:16 you have Jesus called morning star. That's what really has me wondering....and in no way do I interpret Jesus as Satan, but why would he call him self that of Satan?
  5. You've lost me.
    2nd Peter 2: 19
    19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage.

    On this
    Revelation 22:16Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
    16 `I, Jesus did send my messenger to testify to you these things concerning the assemblies; I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright and morning star!

    Remember that the two pieces of scripture have nothing to do with each other, different times, different authors.
    Comparing phrases in the Old and New testaments and expecting special meaning to come out of it is fraught with difficulties
    and IMNSHO leads to more confusion and occasional heresy than producing anything of value.
  6. My bad 2nd Peter 1:19
    My brain is still in wake up mode. I guess it's the thanksgiving break.
    But onward....I Agree that we have diffrent authors of different time periods. But was not these people Jews before salvation, or Gentiles? Because if they were Jews, especially in this time, (if they knew "scripture" like the Pharisees) wouldn't they be extra sure not to make such a mistake?
  7. It's not a "mistake", it's just a reference. There is really no reason to assume that St. John would know the earlier reference or would think that anyone would compare the two if he did.

    The Bible is not an encyclopedia. It was written over a long time by 50+ authors (who I'm sure were not in the least concerned by referential integrity).
    Don't try to hard to find meaning where there isn't any.

    God is quite clever. The Bible is a guide to the humble and a stumbling block to the proud. But the more you try to take all of it literally and play the word match game across books the more of a confusing mess the Bible becomes.
  8. Alright, thanks! I appreciate the responses.

  9. Isaiah 14:12-14 KJV
    "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High."

    Lucifer, son of the morning = הֵילֵל בֶּן-שָׁחַר (literal meaning - Morning star son of black [as in just before the dawn]) – pronounced helel ben shahar

    Lucifer in Hebrew is pronounced heylel.

    Heylel means:

    "Morning star" in Hebrew הֵילֵל

    "Light Bearer" in Latin

    "Crescent Moon" in Arabic هلال (copy and paste this into Google images and you'll get a crescent moon)

    If you type into Google translate, hilal bin shahar (هلال بن شر) you'll get Crescent Moon son of Evil!

    The crescent moon is the symbol and the image of Islam.

    Arabic uses metathesis (vowel substitution and same consonant shuffling) to generate variations of the same theme. For example, the same is done when transliterating Hebrew word for "Festival of Lights" Hanukah, or Hanukkah, or Chanukah. In Arabic, a great example is Mohamed, Muhammad, Muhammed, and Mahomet. Metathesis first starts in pronunciation. For example in English, the proper pronunciation is "TO", but most Americans say "TA". "LATER" but most say "LADER". UK English still spells it CENTRE but is pronounced CENTER which is the American spelling.
    • Hilal means Crescent Moon
    • Halil means Crescent
    • Halal means [appearance of] New Moon
    • Ahillah means Crescents
    • Khalil means Friend (Kh being a hard H) (the moon being a "friend" of those at night
    • Allah is the moon-god and is the great Hilal in the sky. Ibrahim was a "friend" of Allah the moon-god, and Ibrahim pilgrimage was to Haran, the City of the Moon. (A rip off story of Abraham.)
    • Hilal - hard "h" sound - means "dwellings" and another word for the Kaaba (black cube building in Mecca) and the crescent-shaped wall on northwest side of the Kaaba is called Hatim.
    • Ihlal is the name of a ceremony around the Kaaba
    • Hilah means Ruse and is the means which one can circumvent the sharia'a law.
    • Halal meat that has been processed correctly by killing while invoking the name of Allah and killed with a crescent-shaped knife - Halal means the food is permissible to eat and is stamped with a crescent symbol. During the hajj (pilgrimage to Mecca), the sacrifice is to be made facing the crescent-shaped Hatim wall (see the layout on the next page.)
    Starting to sense a pattern?
    Silk likes this.

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