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No Sin

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by SueJLove, Oct 12, 2013.

  1. I just encountered someone for the first time in my life, I think, who believes that after you are born of the Spirit of God that you can never sin again. When I brought up 1 John 2 where John said he wrote these things that the children of God would not sin, but if they did, we have an advocate with the Father, Jeaus Chriist, this person said John was writing to people who still believe they are in sin. This person charges that if we do sin, we have fallen away from our profession of faith. Now, I know differently, so I am not writing this because this person is putting doubts in my mind about what scripture teaches, but I was wondering if any of you have come across this doctrine before, and if you have any thoughts on an appropriate Biblical response.
     
  2. Yes, there are several varieties of this way of thinking. The most common is "Second Blessing Holiness" which says if you progress in the Christian life you come to the point where you have "perfected love" and this is a second event following salvation. Some would go so far as to say that once you reached this stage, you have the ability to not sin. There is also another brand of this thinking known as appalling ignorance.
     
  3. Thank you for sharing your insight. I am unfamiliar with this doctrine. I know it is unbiblical, but hoped some of you might be able to shed some light on the belief for me and share any thoughts you might have on the best response, too.
     
  4. Your use of (1 John 1:8-10) tells me you have very little understanding of what John was saying. It also is calling John a liar.
    When Jesus told the apostles that they were clean, do you believe that they would have been liars if they then said they were sin free?
    “If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar.”
    Can’t you see John was telling people everyone has sinned, and one would be a liar if he said they had not?
    John was not telling people who no longer sinned that they were liars by admitting they no longer sinned.
    and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.”
    If one is forgiven of all unrighteousness are they not then sinless? Could they then be liars if they say they are sinless?
    John later says: New American Bible
    (1 John 3-10) “
    Everyone who has this hope based on him makes himself pure, as he is pure. Everyone who commits sin commits lawlessness, for sin is lawlessness. You know that he was revealed to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who remains in him sins; no one who sins has seen him or known him. Children, let no one deceive you. The person who acts in righteousness is righteous, just as he is righteous. Whoever sins belongs to the devil, because the devil has sinned from the beginning. Indeed, the Son of God was revealed to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is begotten by God commits sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot sin because he is begotten by God. In this way, the children of God and the children of the devil are made plain; no one who fails to act in righteousness belongs to God, nor anyone who does not love his brother.”
    By not believing that John is telling us we are to live without sinning is calling John a liar. John tells us one who sins has never known God.
    (1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work”
    John told us those who did not know God sinned and asked forgiveness and were forgiven, but once a person comes to know God he or she will not sin.
    Scripture goes on to say that if a person who does know God uses their free will to sin there is no repentance for that person.
    (Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”
     
  5. Hi Sue, I believe we have communicated before on another site. I hope you are doing well.

    The danger of this doctrine is obvious, but only a few have fallen into its trap. Sinless perfectionism is a lie. However, on the opposite side, how many millions know nothing of the truth of "being kept by the power of God through faith"? How many lives are not testimonies to Christ's transforming grace, but are in essence shouting to the world that our God cannot deliver us from evil at all? We have evolved into a people that have a form of godliness, but deny the power of God to set us free indeed.

    Is it any wonder why the world does not want what we offer? They see through our nice exterior religious lives, into our hearts, and see us as bound as they are. The only difference is that they are more often then not bound by iron chains, and ours are prettier to look at and woven out of silk. But captive is still captive, amen? God said this.... and in amazement"

    "Is there no balm in Gilead? Is there no physician there? Why then is the health of the daughter of my people healed only slightly, saying 'peace, peace' when there is no peace?"

    Why does it not bother us that our lives are still ruled for the most part by our rebellious flesh, and not by the Spirit? Does the word not clearly say that if we walk in the Spirit, we will NOT fulfill the lusts of the flesh? John is quite clear, and any normal balanced reading of 1st John should put us on our knees. There is indeed a place where we are kept from sin, where our shield of faith is UP and it does indeed quench all...ALL the fiery arrows of the enemy. There is a place waiting for all, even the weakest among us, where our God does not allow us to be tempted above our ability to resist it, and we take it. Every time. What good is a place of total safety if we never take it? I need a salvation, a level of grace, where I am caused to take the way of escape, don't you?

    If it is not possible to escape our flesh, to defeat the sins that so easily beset us, then how, may I ask, can we ever walk out our lives as living sacrifices? How can we run our race as if there is but one prize? How can we ever think we can bring every thought into obedience? Our accepted path makes all this impossible.

    Until we fall on our knees in shame, hating our flesh that will not bow the knee fully to God, and cry out for the new nature He has promised us, cry out as wretched men for the deliverer to deliver us from US, we will remain as a body a shadow of what the church once was. God has asked us, commanded us, to hold up our shield of faith and that it WILL quench all the fiery arrows of the enemy. And what is it that we are to believe? That we are NEW, that we are LIGHT, that we are FREE INDEED, that sin shall NOT have dominion over us! But we have failed to reckon ourselves dead indeed unto sin and thus we remain captives, even though our jail cell doors are swung wide open. Instead the enemy of our souls has convinced us to simply clang our chains in unison to nice songs that talk of joy, talk of freedom, talk of peace, and yet.... there is no peace.

    God has told us in Ezekiel 36 that the new covenant is not like the old. There, under the law, obedience was a requirement, and yet none could obey. But praise God, under the new covenant, grace, He tells us that
    He will "cause us" to walk obediently! Wow! Yet up till now, 1900 years after the church lost its way and drifted into religious self-effort and unbelief in the God who can keep us from falling, we have, and I quote our God, "blasphemed His Holy name whereever we have gone." Ouch. But God says that He will awaken us from our unbelief, and the heathen will know that He is the Lord, when He shall be sanctified IN US before their eyes.

    That is what is coming.....and soon. The bride will become without spot or wrinkle again. She will learn the secret of putting on the new man and the safety that it is promised. She will put on the whole armor of God and find protection and power over the enemy. She will, in truth, put on the Lord Jesus Himself, where we all can say, like Paul,

    "I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ liveth in me. And the life that i now live, I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me."

    That day is is approaching rapidly. We are all being awakened from our slumber of unbelief. God is asking us to light our lamps, to BE who we really are..... light in the Lord. Only then will we find the power to walk as children of light. We have reversed the order, thinking that our job is to do enough "light-type" things, so that eventually we are more light than dark. How long before we can admit it does not work? No sister, we ARE light, and when we finally get that, and expose the lies we have all swallowed, the church will arise from the ashes of religious self effort, and we will lead many to our Lord. Why? Because then we can stare them in the eyes, with tears of joy, and say:

    "The gospel works! IT WORKS!!If Jesus can set me free indeed, free from a flesh that wants its own way, free from the sin that so bound me all my life, free fro the grip of the world and its baubles,then certainly He can you as well!"

    And you know what? Multitudes will listen. It is time we light our lamps.

    Blessings,

    Gideon
     
  6. Thank you Gideon. Nice to hear from you again. I appreciate all that you have said here, and I agree that so many in the church have a form of godliness but they deny the power of God's grace in their lives in setting them free from the control of sin. It is wonderful to walk in such freedom by God's grace through faith. Yet, so many are still living in bondage, and have not come into the freedom we have in Christ, because they are believing a lie that says they can't be free. Yet, I believe God is going to revive his church and that the lamps will burn brightly for Christ and for his gospel and that many will come flocking to Jesus Christ.
     

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