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New Creation Race Being 2

Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by Noblemen, Jun 29, 2016.

  1. Circumcision or uncircumcision, what does that mean for us? It could mean something very definite, and at the same time something very universal.
    It means that no religion produces the new creation race being . Circumcision is a religious rite observed by the Jews. Sacrifices are religious rites observed by the pagans.
    Baptism is a religious rite observed by the Christians. And since the words of Paul stand for the whole religion to which they belong, we can say that no religion matters, only a new state of being matters.
    Let us think about this striking assertion of Paul's. What it says first is that Christianity is not a religion at all. It is basically the message for the new creation race people. When Christianity is made a religion, it is like either circumcision or uncircumcision, no more, no less. In our present world, Christianity encounters several forms of circumcision and uncircumcision.
    Circumcision can stand today for everything called religious, and uncircumcision forever thing called secular. There are great religions other than Christianity, I'll leave them nameless because you know most of them.
    They have their myths and their rites, so to speak, there circumcisions, which given each their respective distinctions.
    Then there are the secular movements, fascism, communism, humanism, and ethical idealism. They try to add void myths and rites, and they represent, so to speak uncircumcision.
    Nevertheless, they also claim ultimate truth and demand complete devotion. How shall the Christ life believer respond to them? Shall we tell them, come to us, for we are a better religion, and our kind of circumcision is higher and better than yours? Shall we praise Christianity, our way of life, the religious, as well as the secular? Shall we make of the Christ life message a success story and tell them as do advertisers, try it with us, and you will see how important the Christ life is for everybody?
    Some missionaries and some ministers and some Christ life believers respond as cited above. They show a total misunderstanding of the Christ life.
    The apostle Paul, was a missionary, a preacher, and a Layman, all at once, says something different.
    He says that no particular religion matters, not ours, not yours. But something has happened which does matter, something that judges you and me, your religion and mine.
    God has birthed in the human being another person. This other person is the true and only life of the human being. From this person comes a whole new creature, and absolutely new race of people.
    A new being has appeared, and every human being is ask by God and the gospel message to participate in it.
  2. 'As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh,
    they constrain you to be circumcised;
    only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.
    For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law;
    but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.
    But God forbid that I should glory,
    save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ,
    by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
    For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision,
    but a new creature.'

    (Gal 6:12-15)

    Hello @Noblemen

    You have allegorised circumcision, taking it out of the context within which it comes, and therefore the association to which it belongs, and have used it to illustrate something for which it was not intended. I cannot agree with this, for this is the way error is produced.

    I believe that what you wanted to say, could have been said using passages which relate directly to the subject you wish to bring to our attention, without having to use the verses in Galatians in this way, e.g.,

    'Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature:
    old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
    And all things are of God,
    Who hath reconciled us to Himself by Jesus Christ, ... '

    (2Co 5:17,18a)

    I do not believe the concept of 'a new race' of people can be found in Scripture to describe the redeemed: for the word race is an earthly concept, whereas the new birth is a heavenly concept. A new creation, having it's foundation in Christ, it's identity with Christ. Having no cohesive existence apart from Him. Having no pedigree, and no means of reproduction within itself, for all is in Him, of Him and for Him.

    Praise His Holy Name!

    With respect to you, Noblemen.
    In Christ Jesus
    Noblemen likes this.
  3. Hello yet again, @Noblemen,

    Please don't get a persecution complex, :) I am not trying to be destruction but constructive.

    Surely it is not another person that is 'birthed' but One, and that is - Christ. It is Christ-Spirit that is implanted within the believer. It is the Christ Spirit that unites each believer to one another and to Christ Himself. It is Christ that is to be participated of by new birth. No new race of people, but one united entity, which is Christ, manifested in and through those who are sons of God - in and through Him.

    Speaking in terms of race is misleading I believe.

    With respect.
    In Christ Jesus
    Noblemen likes this.
  4. Chris I always receive your words with respect. I can handle disagreement over the scriptures.
    I believe we need to reason them out as believer's.
    Complete likes this.
  5. Ok, I can see how you would read that into it but totally disagree. Christ has been birthed in the believer, what do you think the seed of God is?
  6. #6 Complete, Jul 12, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2016

    You ask, 'What do you think the seed of God is?'

    The Seed is Christ Himself (Galatians 3:16).

    'Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made.
    He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one,
    And to thy seed, which is Christ.'

    * We are received as sons by God through the sacrifice of His only Son

    'According as He hath chosen us in Him
    before the foundation of the world,
    that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:
    Having predestinated us
    unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself,
    according to the good pleasure of His will,
    To the praise of the glory of His grace,
    wherein He hath made us accepted in The Beloved.'

    (Eph 1:4-6)

    * but we are not 'the seed' - Christ is.

    The title 'Father' necessitates a family. While therefore the redeemed are nothing in themselves, they are precious by reason of His gracious purpose, and their place through grace in it.

    In Christ Jesus
  7. When we were yet sinners and unsaved we walked this earth as children of the devil.

    When we became born again we were created new. We became a new creation in Christ or new creature.

    The born again man is a new race of people. It started with the second Adam (Jesus ) as He was the first man to be born again.

    All through out scripture we read about this.
    Even Revelation 1:5 tells us Jesus was the first born again.

    Please don't get hung up on words.
    We are a new race of people set apart from the old race born in sin.

    Before salvation we walked by the Spirit of man
    After salvation we received the spirit of God within us.

    That is 2 complete different races of men. Think about this, in God's eyes there is but two races of man

    We however focus on the natural things such as creed, color, ethnic background and so forth.

    Saved race dwells in peace and love and harmony
    Lost race dwells in lust, hate, prejudice and that's why there are so many race wars through out time.

    Man was created in the image of God.
    The first Adam gave his authority over to the devil and the Light went out of the garden and Man now was born in sin or with the nature of his father the devil.

    So we are as a set apart race of people if we are born again.

    Noblemen, Cturtle and Complete says Amen and like this.
  8. Hi @Fish Catcher Jim,

    I will not quibble about words: but the Holy Spirit uses words very carefully, and He does not refer to the believer in Christ as a race of people, so neither should we.

    In Christ Jesus
  9. Hi Chris,
    As always after I read a post or anything or listen to something, I have been working on creating a habit to go sit outside (weather permitting) and sit quietly before Him.

    This is when I get some understanding or another words if He wants to add to or take away from my thinking, well He does so. This time is no different and this is what I believe He said.......

    To make a claim such as the Holy Spirit does not or has not used a word describing something to some one would be in error.

    Not myself or any one else, is there listening to the Holy Spirit as He talks with others. Not my self or any one else can pull up a Holy Spirit log and have references to His every word spoken to man.

    We can pray for knowledge or understanding and if we have an open heart tuned into His voice we can receive such knowledge But if our minds be made up our hearts can gain no more insight, correction or understanding in any matter.

    So just because we may not have heard or gained insight on something does not make it false. We all need perfecting daily and this will always be so.

    Blessings and love in Christ
    Noblemen and Cturtle say Amen and like this.
  10. Thank you, @Fish Catcher Jim.

    What I said concerning the use of the word, 'race', in relation to the body of believers in Christ, was not a claim, it is a fact that the word 'race' is not used in this context, in the KJV. Associated words are used, such as 'house' or 'offspring', but not in that connection. In fact, in Acts 17, the whole of mankind is spoken of as the offspring of God, not just those who have been saved by grace.

    'And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth,
    and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
    That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after Him, and find Him, though He be not far from every one of us:
    For in Him we live, and move, and have our being;
    as certain also of your own poets have said, 'For we are also His offspring.'
    Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God,
    we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.'

    (Act 17:26-29)

    I do not doubt your words to me @Fish Catcher Jim: and praise God for it, but the written Word of God is our only authorititive Word, and all other words must be measured against it, and not the other way round.

    In Christ Jesus
    Cturtle likes this.
  11. This is very true @Complete
    Would you not agree without the Holy Spirit leading and teaching us we understand not His ways.

    If the Holy Spirit only spoke the very text used or written in His word (the bible) how would one gain understanding or ever be able to teach or minister unto another?

    Remember the words used in the bible you read are translated and not the original words used and far too many times when we dig into the original meanings or multiple meanings we find the meaning of the words we read are limited to the fullness they have.

    That's all I am saying or trying to say.
    Blessings Chris
    Noblemen and Cturtle say Amen and like this.
  12. Chris you are going to have to put on your thinking hat for this one.
    I use alot of words you will not see written but the context is the same. For instance "the Birthing" that refers to being born again.
    Paul never uses the word born again, he uses the word mystery.
    Peter, on the day of penecost didn't even know of such a thing as being birthed by God, but that is what was happening at the time. As I've stated many times without Paul we would know nothing of a birthing by God our Father. Not until Paul does Peter use the term born again in his Epistles.
    We have to see how important Paul is to us as bonified offspring of God. Race of people is just a term, a true term but just a term.
    What is imparative to the believer is they have a revelation of that birthing. It would take out alot of the confusion and the believer could grow in that knowledge. As it stands there is a great lack in the body.
    We are as sheep but we do have a mind and that mind must yield to the Holy Spirit if is ever to be renewed to Christ who is our life, no other life but Christ.
  13. #13 Complete, Jul 13, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2016
  14. Hello there,

    My thanks to @Fish Catcher Jim, and to @Noblemen, for your further responses.

    I don't think there is a lot more that I can say. For, like yourselves, I value the Word of God, and am mindful of what is said in 2 Timothy 2:14,15. So, I like you I'm sure, will continue to endeavour to show myself approved unto God, by seeking to rightly divide the Word of Truth, as a workman, that I may not be ashamed.

    With my love to you both,
    In Christ Jesus
    Noblemen and Fish Catcher Jim say Amen and like this.
  16. #16 Noblemen, Jul 14, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2016

    Hi Chris, I have a question, answer only if you feel it's necessary. I know you said there is not alot more we can say. It's not a trick question but I'm wondering what you would say "rightly dividing the word of truth" would be.
    Thanks for all scriptures you give and quotes in the treads, you're a blessing.
  17. 'Study to shew thyself approved unto God,
    a workman that needeth not to be ashamed,
    rightly dividing the word of truth.'

    (2 Tim. 2:15)

    That is a very necessary question, @Noblemen: for I believe that we may all have quite a differing understanding as to what 'rightly dividing the Word of Truth' means.

    I will respond asap.

    Thank you for asking.
    In Christ Jesus

    Noblemen likes this.
  18. #18 Complete, Jul 14, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2016
    OK, @Noblemen,

    The only Biblical guide we have to the usage of the word translated, 'rightly dividing' is in Proverbs 3:6, where it is translated 'direct thy paths' (meaning to make straight or plain);-

    'Trust in the LORD with all thine heart;
    and lean not unto thine own understanding.
    In all thy ways acknowledge Him,
    and He shall direct thy paths.

    (Pro 3:5,6)

    In 2 Timothy 2:15, we are urged to endeavour to show ourselves 'approved unto God'. It is He that we seek to please and not man. If we would be workmen that need not be ashamed, we need to, 'rightly divide the Word of Truth'. This is God's Word and not man's, and it is Truth, yet we need to try the things that differ, in order to understand and acknowledge in word and deed what is Truth for the dispensation in which we find ourselves. For to take what was God's Truth for a past, or future dispensation and bring it into this one, would mean that we were not walking in the Truth that He has assigned to us , who are called into the dispensation of the mystery, the Body of Christ.

    I know that you will agree with me, Noblemen, when I say that all Scripture is for us, but not all is about us, and that God always says just was He means and means just exactly what He says,

    All Scripture is for us to learn by, but for the Body of Christ, the letters written from prison by Paul contain the truth concerning the dispensation of the mystery, which is Truth for the Body of Christ during this present dispensation. Eph. Phil. Col. 1&2 Timothy and Titus. It was hid in God prior to it's revelation to Paul after Acts 28.

    The words of Miles Coverdale are useful in rightly dividing,

    'It shall greatly helpe ye to understand Scripture, if thou mark
    not only what is spoken, or wrytten,
    but of whom,
    and to whom,
    with what words,
    at what time,
    to what intent,
    with what circumstance,
    considering what goeth before, and what followeth.'

    Romans contains foundational truth upon which the prison epistles rest. The books written by Paul prior to Acts 28 are transitionary: for us, but not about us.

    I have to leave this here, having said vertually nothing, but this is a subject which, as you have said, is deep, and will take much more time and space than this entry will allow. I will gladly continue if you wish, but you must decide that, I think.

    In Christ Jesus

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