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Need help with Luke 23:43

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by ASUK, Jan 9, 2016.

  1. Could someone tell me which one of these versions is correct and why?

    1. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.


    2. And he said to him: “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise.
  2. What's the issue? One speaks in old style English the other in more modern vernacular. They both say the same thing. Remember in Greek there's no punctuation.
    Cturtle likes this.
  3. The difference is where the comma is. It gives it a very different meaning.

    I say to you today, you will be with me in paradise.

    I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.

    Did Jesus simply say that he was going to be with him in paradise or that they will be in paradise today?
  4. As I said, in Greek, there is no comma.

    I say to you today you will be with me in paradise.​

    Only in English (or another language) would that cause an interpretation problem. The answer to your question though is, they both died that very day thereby answer the question: when would he be in paradise? That day. I hope this helps.
    Ravindran, Major, Cturtle and 2 others say Amen and like this.
  5. Answer me this. Did Jesus and the thief go to paradise that day?
  6. Actually option 2 is wrong..IMO.
    If I was just generalizing about some future event, reference to 'today' would be silly.
    "I am going to the market." would be sufficient. I might add 'tomorrow' or next week etc.
    Option 1 on the other hand makes sense because it is talking specifics.
    "Today I am going to the market" or "I am going to the market today"
    In the case in point, Jesus could not have told the person the day before, or the day after, so naturally it was being said 'today'.
    What was being promised was about 'today'.
    hope this helps.
    ThereIsAHope and Major say Amen and like this.
  7. This is what I always thought too but someone recently pointed out that Jesus did not go to paradise that day. He was in the tomb for 3 days.
  8. Indeed He did, Matt 12:40. He went to preach to them the gospel, 1 Peter 3:19-20. He spoke of this in Luke 16. He also says He now has the keys to hell and death because He overcame them both, Rev 1:18. For He is now the only Authority, 1 Cor 15:24.
    Ravindran, Major and Cturtle says Amen and like this.
  9. I believe you can safely stick to your original understanding, and try to patiently instruct those who don't understand.
    Given the principle that one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years is as one day with the Lord, I don't see a difficulty here.
    For those there at the time, three days would pass before they would encounter the risen Christ.
    However let's not forget that Jesus as the Son of God is omnipresent.
    He, being very God could and would be at/in all places of the creation at the same time.
    So, in the tomb three days....Yes.
    In heaven with the Father at the same time......Yes.
    Preaching to the spirits in prison at the same time....Yes.
    Looking after the disciples in their grief at the same time................yes.
    Ravindran and Major say Amen and like this.
  10. #10 Cturtle, Jan 10, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2016
    just because Jesus Physical body was in the tomb, does not mean that His spirit man was there
    Ravindran, Major, KingJ and 3 others say Amen and like this.
  11. NO - my understanding is that Jesus was saying that today when you (the thief) die you will qualify to enter paradise with Me;
    I read into this that Jesus had forgiven his sins, and granted him mercy due to his repentance.
    Luke 23:43
    (ABP+) AndG2532 [2saidG2036 3to himG1473 G3588 1Jesus],G* AmenG281 I sayG3004 to you,G1473 TodayG4594 withG3326 meG1473
    you will beG1510.8.2 inG1722 G3588 paradise.G3857
    (DRB) And Jesus said to him: Amen I say to thee: This day thou shalt be with me in paradise.
    (YLT) and Jesus said to him, `Verily I say to thee, To-day with me thou shalt be in the paradise.'
    H6508 - par-dace' - Of foreign origin; a park: - forest, orchard.
    G3857 - par-ad'-i-sos -
    Of Oriental origin (compare [H6508]); a park, that is, (specifically) an Eden (place of future happiness, “paradise”): - paradise.
  12. #12 Complete, Jan 10, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2016
    Hi @ASUK,

    Punctuation is a manmade addition to the original text, and is not always helpful. In this case it has proved to be used as a tool to bolster an untruth. I believe that if we have to have punctuation, that the second option is the better one, for it speaks the truth with a clear sound.

    Praise God!

    In Christ Jesus
    Ravindran and Major say Amen and like this.
  13. Hello again, @ASUK,

    'I say unto thee this day' was a common Hebrew idiom for emphazising the occasion of making a solemn statement. Compare:-
    Deut. 4:26,39,40; 5:6; 6:11; 8:1,11, 9 and many more.

    'Paradise' was the condition of the earth before the entrance of Satan and the curse; so it will be also the condition of the earth again when Satan shall be bound, and the Lord shall come and reign in His kingdom. It is called in Hebrew 'Eden' sixteen times, and 'the Garden', nineteen times.

    The Lord answered the request of the dying believer, not by promising something for which he did not ask; but by granting him his heart's desire and giving him the request of his lips. It has a yet future application.

    In Christ Jesus
  14. Just something to think about....paradise was also known as Abraham's bosom. Which was in sheol. And all of the saints who died prior to Jesus went there. But when Jesus was raised from the dead....they also were released from that place to go to heaven.

    Mat 27:52 — Mat 27:53
    And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

    Matthew 12:40
    For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
    God bless
    Major likes this.
  15. Thanks for all the replies.
  16. Jesus didn't waste or mince words. he meant that that very day the criminal would be with Him in Hades or Paradise where the righteous dead were.
    Ravindran and Major say Amen and like this.
  17. Jesus was not physically with the Father at all during that time. He ascended to the Father WEEKS later. He was not omnipresent. He is only omnipresent now by His Holy Spirit.
    Abdicate likes this.
  18. #18 KingJ, Jan 11, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2016
    Nail on the head.
    Cturtle and Major say Amen and like this.
  19. Do you have scripture for this?
  20. #20 KingJ, Jan 11, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2016
    Just another thought. Why would Jesus say today in the second sense? Are there other scriptures where Jesus talks like that? ''This hour I tell you..... to go and tell nobody that I healed you'' Matt 8:4 :giggle:.

    People who believe we will not be in heaven interpret it the second way.

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