Okay. The church I was in nearly 51 years -- from birth -- made us think that the leaders (especially) and the members were perfect. Having received that from birth, and having been strongly taught that at home with punishment, I believed them for most of that nearly 51 years. I could look right at fault and not believe it, because their teaching was stronger than reality. I could look right at the most egregious of sins against other members, against myself, and not believe it; their teaching was stronger than my own eye witness! An example: when I was @ 18, the married pastor caught me in a dark hall, held me, and kissed me like a teen aged boy; months later, I had asked him to marry us. The incident may as well have been forgotten; I could not face the reality of what he did, what he was, what I had hidden from his wife and Everyone Else! Including my new husband. It took years for this to make me sick, and when I began to understand, it Made Me So Sick. One more example among many: No, no more are necessary. So here's what I've been seeing over the years, once I began to believe what I saw: Having been reared to think that G-d's people were perfect, when I caught wind of the Reformers' doctrine I nabbed onto it. For me, that explained everything: all those people were not perfect, but that did not condemn them to hell. They were just not perfect, and neither am I. So in my mind then, that gave all those people an excuse. But the shock continues to be shocking! It shakes me to the core when I learn the sins of people. And while the Bible warns us against comparing ourselves to other believers, I do it. Most recently, in my capacity at work, a friend at the church where I work said some things that again shook me deeply. What kind of people are we before the L-rd? These people I have dealt with over the years and today . . . me . . you? That G-d has anything to do with us at all amazes me. I need to get off to work, but this brings up another question I will ask later, when I can.