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Music "Ministry."

Discussion in 'Books, Music and Television' started by JoWilli, Dec 4, 2006.

  1. Music "Ministry."

    Today's Christian music is neither a reflection nor a product of Scriptural example and teaching. It is a culturally based human contrivance, yet, for some reason, it is thought to be substantive, effectual, and sacred.

    The following features of modern Christian music are unrelated to anything in Scripture:

    1.) Using worship songs to conjure up the Holy Spirit on cue, "Welcoming Him into our presence." In fact, the Holy Spirit "goes where it wills," and His "presence" is the real issue, not our "presence."

    2.) Using music to "Set the tone and mood" of a service. The Word of God, according to Hebrews 4:12-13, is the dynamic factor for our state of being before God, not our experience with music.

    3.) Using music as a necessary and integral part of preaching events. In fact, neither Jesus nor The Apostles even suggested this is true.

    4.) Using music to "Bring us into God's presence." This is never demonstrated in the New Covenant, which alone provides for entry into the Throneroom by means of Jesus' propitiation.

    5.) Using music to uniquely convey the message of the Gospel. Nowhere in Scripture is music used for this. Lyrics and melody are not assigned any special potential for communicating Devine revelation to humans.

    6.) The control and conduct of church music by paid "professional" musicians on staff is not hinted at in Scripture, as is compensation for teachers. Only Levitic Priests and occasionally others promoted corporate use of music, but only under the Old Covenant.

    7.) Neither music which is soft, alluring, and hypnotic nor music which is blaring, pounding, and decibly intrusive is ever used to influence the worship of God in Scripture in the New Covenant.

    8.) Music is never called a "ministry" in Scripture.

    9.) Music is never used to elicit intuitive and spontaneous responses from its advocates and listeners, except for the mentally ill King Saul. It is never characterized as "inspirational."

    10.) Music was never used for its subtle background effect to influence the responses of a crowd to appeals for salvation, committment, repentance, financial giving, or prayer.

    Let me know if you find specific Scripture to refute any of this. Also, let me know if your responses to any of this have substantive basis, or if your responses are just kinda intuitive.

    JoWilli.
     
  2. So, you are saying that music is fundamentally un-Christian and shouldn't be used in worship services? I've heard many, many arguments against using "Praise Bands" and modern Christian music, but I've never heard anyone suggest that music was downright un-Biblical.

    Maybe I'm just not a very good Christian, but the day the church bans music is the day I start in indepentent underground church. Even if I have to live a life without contemporary music and sing only out of hymnals, I simply wouldn't be interested in a life without music.

    So what if the early church did not mention music in their services. Does that really mean that it has no place in worship? I'm not talking about trying to summon the Holy Spirit, I'm simply talking about connecting with people on a personal level. Uniting people for a common purpose.
     
  3. Bana,

    May I help you with your reading comprehension skills?

    Nowhere in my post did I say or infer that music was "UnChristian," or "shouldn't be used in worship services." Please review what I clearly said, without adding your ideas, unless you identify your ideas as your own.

    Can you show where it is God's plan for music to be supposedly used to "connect with people on a personal level?"

    Maybe you should read what Scripture says about music, instead of inventing your own ideas.

    JoWilli.
     
  4. You stated "Today's Christian music is neither a reflection nor a product of Scriptural example and teaching" as opposed to "Praise music". Since most of the churches in my area still use hymnal and hymnal style music, and contemporary praise music is a clear exception that is only very recently (last 2 years) being used in our churches, for me that meant it was inclusive. Sorry for my confusion on your meaning.
     
  5. The phrase "Today's Christian music" would include "praise music" and hymnal music, since both forms are used "today."

    Many hymns are either unGodly in their message, or thinly reflective of Scripture. Yet, they are continually sung as unto God, with all sincerity, and with all compliance to the "music minister" conducting the session.

    It is not considered good form or a feature of "unity in the Body" to require a "music minister" to get his theology right. If it were, these foolish hymns would disappear from worship.

    JoWilli.
     
  6. Ok, I'll admit it. I'm lost. I haven't a clue what you are trying to say anymore.
     
  7. Just go to your regular church worship service, next Sunday, and watch to see if they do any of the things I listed in the original Thread, here.

    JoWilli.
     
  8. I am not opposing what you've said here, JoWilli.

    Let me put it this way. In the new and old testament, there was no mention of the internet being used by Jesus or the Appostles to teach scriptures. Yet there are various internet ministries which are very effective. Does God forbid this?

    Importance of music

    Music during suffering
    Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God while they were in prison and others were listening to them. The next thing we read is the earth quake and then Pauls instruction to the jailer about salvation. Wasn't music a part of all this?
    Music after salvation
    Moses and Israelites sang a song to God after they were rescued from the red sea to praise God for His salvation.(Exodus 15)

    You have listed features of modern Christian music that are unrelated to anything in Scripture. Could you list those that are related? There are errors in various translations of the Bible but if they were to stop printing it in various languages and translations, how would the message reach millions unsaved?

    Again my knowledge is very limited and so I can make a lot of mistakes in my post. :blush02:
     
  9. There is no evidence that God would "forbid" use of the internet by Christians for the promotion of their ideologies and theology. Neither is there contradiction for the use of music within what is exemplified in Scripture.

    The issue I bring into this Forum is the constant fabrication and embellishment of so called music "ministries," and probably internet "ministries," which do not present the pure Word of God, but use their busy activities and excessive talk to imply they are "the work of God" in their entirety.

    The owners and leaders of such "ministries" go far beyond their identities as individual Believers, into the imaginary world of their organization, calling their words, their "culture," their expectations, their requests for support from people, as a package, "of God," or "God's work," or "Kingdom work," or "anointed by God," when such a characterization is just a human contrivance.

    Yes, indeed, Moses and the Israelites worshipped God at the edge of the Red Sea before their deliverance, and Paul and Silas worshipped God while chained in prison until the angel freed them. Now, can you tell us here how those two instances of music relate MATERIALLY to anything practiced in churches today?

    When I say "MATERIALLY" I mean what is physically demonstrated in churches that is in the same category as what happened to Moses at the Red Sea and to Paul and Silas in the prison? The answer, is "Nothing!"

    What Moses and Paul were involved in via worship is NOT THE SAME as what is shouted about, danced for, speculated about, preached on, yelled about, "claimed," "revealed," "ministered," "received in anointing" in modern churches.

    What then are you trying to describe?

    JoWilli.
     
  10. So many of your arguments rely on generalizations which makes them very difficult to fully comprehend or counter. I know the importance of music in my life and in my devotions. I also know the limits of what I can "learn" or do through music in my devotion.
     
  11. If I understand correctly, I don't think JoWilli is commenting on whether or not music should be played in local meetings but how it is used. In the Bible it was often part of celebrating the goodness of the Lord, and that is absolutely right for today. The problem is that music is very often used in meetings to create the type of atmosphere that leaders want and I'm not sure why people would consider this to be necessary. If such a use is not outright unbiblical then it is at least a very a shallow and superficial use of music. In other words, JoWilli is making a point that I very much agree with.
     

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