Yes, it is in the generic sense.
Moving past this hurt & bitterness seems difficult :/
- Thread starter autumn oddity
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Yes, it is in the generic sense.
Galatians 3:28 (MSG)
In Christ’s family there can be no division into Jew and non-Jew, slave and free, male and female. Among us you are all equal. That is, we are all in a common relationship with Jesus Christ.
"They" is grammatically incorrect.
Correct! You just said.......
" in every instance where is talks about a man wanting to be a overseer it mentions he must only be married to one women."
The verse you are speaking to about Paul not being married is incorrect my brother. YOU speak of "Contextual" truth but you ignore the actual words when doing so.
1 Corinthians 7:8..... “I say to the unmarried and to widows that it is good for them if they remain even as I.”
That can imply that Paul was un-married....correct but it can aslo imply that he was un-married because his wife had died.
So it is about context!!
In all the wider Greek literature, agamos refers specifically to an unmarried male, whether a bachelor or a widower (see LSJ, p. 5). The term agamos only appears four times in all of the New Testament. All four uses are from Paul, and all four appear in the seventh chapter of 1 Corinthians. 1 Corinthians 7:8, 11, 32, 34.
Paul uses the term agamos to refer to those who have been married but now are no longer married.
1 Corinthians 7:11 ..........
“If she does leave, let her remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband.”
1 Corinthians 7:34............
“An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord’s affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit.”
Notice that 7:11 refers to a woman who has been separated from her husband. Notice also that 7:34 contrasts an “unmarried” woman with a “virgin”—thereby contrasting someone who was formerly married with someone who was not. In both cases, the “unmarried” refers to the once-married not the never-been-married.
There was a word in Greek that specified “widower” (cheros), but it does not appear in biblical literature and only rarely outside of it. It is not surprising, therefore, that Paul might use a term like agamos in its place.
This is an incorrect application of Scriptures. We are discussing "Leadership" in the church and you are using Galatians 3:28 to support some thing which is not there. Galatians 3:28 is about equality of the sexes when it comes to salvation NOT leadership qualifications.
We are ALL one in Christ Jesus removes race, sex class and every thing else. Those things are not barriers to Christian fellowship because the ground at the foot of the cross is level for all people.
There is no male or female in the household of God. Far too many people don't take this truth far enough. That's a problem.
To be brutally honest, these qualifications are so self-explanatory, IMO they call for little (if any) discussion.
How can we be debating......“husband of one wife”????
How can we be debating......"if a man desires an office of bishop????
In Greek, the phrase is mias gunaikos andra. Vincent, in his word study, translates it as “the husband of one wife” (1886, 4:228). R.H. Lenski translates the phrase as “one wife’s husband” (1998, pp. 579-580). William D. Mounce renders the words “‘one-woman’ man” (2000, 46:156). And C. Michael Moss translates it as the “‘husband of but one wife’ (literally ‘one woman’s man’)” (1994, pp. 69-70). What we see, then, is that the original language does not elucidate the phrase as much as we might like. In essence, it leaves us with the same ambiguities as the simple English renderings of the term which is that it is all about a man, male.
http://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=11&article=1643
Agreed 100%! Equality of the sexes is not what we have been discussing. It has been about if a woman is Biblically qualified to be a pastor.
Biblically...a woman is just as much called to pastor as a man is called.
Ephesians 4:11-16
11 Now these are the gifts Christ gave to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers. 12 Their responsibility is to equip God’s people to do his work and build up the church, the body of Christ. 13 This will continue until we all come to such unity in our faith and knowledge of God’s Son that we will be mature in the Lord, measuring up to the full and complete standard of Christ.
14 Then we will no longer be immature like children. We won’t be tossed and blown about by every wind of new teaching. We will not be influenced when people try to trick us with lies so clever they sound like the truth. 15 Instead, we will speak the truth in love, growing in every way more and more like Christ, who is the head of his body, the church. 16 He makes the whole body fit together perfectly. As each part does its own special work, it helps the other parts grow, so that the whole body is healthy and growing and full of love.
"This is a true saying, if a man (Greek word does not mean a man, but someone, or whosoever) desire the office of a bishop, he desireth (Something here, no male, female meaning. It means, " To have the affections directed toward something) a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, (this one is very easy. If anyone, whosoever, or someone desires this work, and if he is a man and he IF he is married, he must be the husband to one wife) vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that ruleth well his own house, (the word "his own" has nothing to do with being a man, but a person in the Greek) the having his children in subjection with all gravity; For if a man (this word also has nothing to do with a man, or male. It means someone, or a person) know not how to rule his own house, (the words, "his own" has nothing to do with a male, or man but a person. pertaining to self, that is, one's own) how shall he take care of the church of God? (Here again there is no indication this is referring to a man! It means, to concern oneself. To have concern for, to take care of or care for)
Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover he must (Same thing here. It is referring to a person, or someone. Even the word "he" refers to either a she, or he, or a person) have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. Likewise(Same as bishops) must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless. Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things. Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, (already gone over this one. if the someone, or whosoever desires to be a overseer, and IF that person happens to be a married man, then he must only be married to one wife) ruling their children and their own houses well. For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
Then again, maybe it means exactly what it says????
I have found that where the problems come from in understanding the Scriptures are rooted in the words........
"He simply means..........."!
Not so!
Take that up with the one who wrote the Bible sister, not me. I just read what it says and accept it without having to explain it.
Actually, many of the differences people have in the Body of Christ come from not understanding the simplicity of the word when one takes the time and energy to study the word and to try to grasp the root language and what the writer is saying.
I know the word, and the Word.
You sure are working hard to prove what you like. Me.......I just read it, love it and live it.
God bless you brother but we will never be reconciled over what the Bible clearly says in the black and white.
Man = Man.
You know, many years ago I did an in-depth study on Romans 3:23 and imparticular the word "ALL."
"ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God".
I studied that word ALL inside and out, Greek, English, German, Hebrew, Chinese and so on and on and do you know what I found out??????
ALL = ALL!!!
Man = Man.
Husband = Man.
Father = Man.
I will tell you why. There are no contradictions in the Word of God, but if we stick to what you think it says then we do have contradictions. There are many women in the Bible who have taught men, and speak in the Churches. This would be a lie if we stick to what you believe. Scripture MUST interpret other scriptures. There can be no contradictions. The only way to harmonize the Word of God is to know that men, and women both are equally gifted by God in the ministry, and that Paul speaks to the Church to make sure that if a man desires to be a overseer or in any other ministry, and if he is married, must only be married to one wife. For what ever reason Paul considered this a problem in his day, which is why harped on it.
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And I agree with that also, and when one does just that, one finds out that the Bible said exactly what it meant to say.
Even when we consider context, and Greek, and the manuscripts and the translations it still all comes down to the simple meaning of
Man=Man. Husband=Man. Father = Man!!
Not so. If the bible says what you understand from the surface reading of the letter of the word, then you will run up against a contradiction.
You are correct my brother. Many women have done exactly what you say. There is no debate there and if you will just look back several pages you will see that I have said exactly that on several occasions.
In my church right now we have three women who teach Bible study classes. In each class, those wonderful ladies ask if there is a man who wants to teach that class because they do not want to overstep the bounds of Biblical authority. When The men refuse to accept the job, there is no contradiction. But those dear ladies are not pastors in a position of leadership and authority which is what the Bible says and as you see you and I are saying the same thing.
The minister of music is in fact a woman.
The piano player is a woman.
The leader of the weekly Tuesday Bible study class is a woman.
But not a single one of these ladies would accept a position of pastor for ONE reason. They have read the Word of God and believe it as it is presented to them.
It is good that people do not violate what they think God says, but there is a whole lot more out there to know and experience of God.