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Mosaic Law: 20 Questions

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by Jamn, Feb 21, 2014.

  1. Here are a few more new questions I'd appreciate some insight on. Thanks everyone! Your opinions are of great help to me in my studies. :)
    (Ps. If any questions were repeated, I didn't get a clear answer from before or might like to hear more. Thanks!)

    OLD QUESTIONS - NEED CLARIFICATION

    #1: Explain situating of Naphtali's placement in reference to Deuteronomy 33:23 ("SOUTHward?")

    #2: Lots of questions about Levites...
    A. Why was Levi distinguished for this honor (priesthood) despite he and Simeon's sin in Genesis 34? Were they cursed for it? Simeon seems to fade into obscurity...
    B. Did Levites who worked in the temple(s), etc. live in a different place than the ones who led normal working lives?
    C. Did both types live in the Levite towns or did they live separately? D. Did the Levites (both or one kind) live with other people in their towns who belonged to the tribe they were situated in or were the towns exclusively for the Levites?
    E. How did the redeeming of the firstborn/Levites work? (See Numbers 3.)
    F. Someone said that individual Levites only worked for the Lord for a period of time, not in a lifelong position. Was this true/false, or did it differ by position? Reference?

    #3: Ruth was a Moabite, who were not allowed to enter the congregation even till the tenth generation. Did this not include proselytes? Deuteronomy 23. People say it doesn't include descendants by foreign women. Reference?

    NEW QUESTIONS

    #4: Friends! Extremely interested to hear more about Sheol chart posted earlier. References for this? Possible that hell references are different name for the same thing? Doing research.

    #5: 1 Samuel 20:6. How could they offer a sacrifice in Bethlehem when they were only to be made at the Temple? I know this is a fabrication by David, but then they probably did happen with some families. But how?

    #6: People often made covenant promises as well as oaths by God in the OT. Is this in conflict now with the later command in James 5:12, "Above all, my brothers and sisters, do not swear—not by heaven or by earth or by anything else. All you need to say is a simple “Yes” or “No.” Otherwise you will be condemned."

    #7: Did other people around the world live as long as Noah? Why does the 120 year limit start in Genesis but people were still living beyond it later on? (Genesis 6:3) When was the last person to live beyond it?

    #8: 1 Samuel 16- an evil spirit from God? Confusion about David's census, too:
    (2 Samuel 24:1)"Again the anger of the Lord burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, “Go and take a census of Israel and Judah.” (1 Chronicles 21:1) "Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel."

    #9: Why was Israel restored (1940's)? Deuteronomy 30.

    #10: Why/how does modern archaeology 'confirm' Jericho was abandoned 300 years before the Hebrews got there?

    #11: Why does carbon dating put ancient civilizations before the creation?

    #12: The tabernacle seems to be moving around a lot. It's difficult to tell where it is.
    -Example: In 1 Samuel 21:1, is it there? Nob isn't listed as a Levitical city. Are there more Levite cities now?
    -Also: Could the Levites live in a non-Levitical city? Which type? For example, can non-tabernacle/temple workers, aka non-serving normal everyday Levites live wherever, but priests only served in Levitical cities? If so, why was Ahimelek serving in Nob?

    #13: In 1 Samuel 20, why did David need to hide behind the rock for the arrow shenanigan if Jonathan was able to just speak to him directly?

    #14: 1 Samuel 21. Three questions...
    First, was Ahimelek wrong for giving the consecrated bread to David? Also, at the end of the chapter, there are two things that strike me as odd. First, what was Goliath's sword doing in Nob? I thought David brought those things to his own tent and to Jerusalem. ("David took the Philistine’s head and brought it to Jerusalem; he put the Philistine’s weapons in his own tent." - 1 Samuel 17:54 NIV) Why was it in Nob? Second, why did he flee to Gath?!

    Note: "David took the Philistine’s head and brought it to Jerusalem; he put the Philistine’s weapons in his own tent." (1 Samuel 17:54 NIV) Why did he take it to Jerusalem?

    #15: 1 Samuel 14:3 & Nehemiah 10:26 both have the same root word for the name Ahijah/Ahiah. Why is the name written differently in English (Ahijah & Ahiah)? Note that NIV and KJV both use both names, but usage is reversed!

    #16: Was Saul still based in his hometown in Gibeah surrounding the events of 1 Samuel 18, 19, 20, etc.?

    #17: How did the high priesthood end up in the house of Ithamar (1 Samuel 21, 1 Chronicles 24:3) versus Eleazar? Was it a family line (father to son) or an elected office?
    -Also, why was the tabernacle moved to Nob (1 Samuel 21)?
    -(see below) Also, was there more than one Ahimelek and was Ahitub two different people- the grandson of Eli and the grandson of X-unknown of the house of Eleazar?
    -----Aaron. - Nadab, Abihu, Eleazar and Ithamar. - Eleazar Phinehas Abishua Bukki Uzzi Zerahiah Meraioth Amariah Ahitub Zadok Ahimaaz Azariah Johanan Azariah Amariah Ahitub Zadok Shallum Hilkiah Azariah Seraiah Jozadak.
    -----
    1 Samuel 22:20
    (Abiathar son of ) Ahimelek son of Ahitub
    1 Samuel 23:6
    Abiathar son of Ahimelek
    1 Samuel 30:7
    Abiathar son of Ahimelek
    2 Samuel 8:17
    Zadok son of Ahitub and Ahimelek son of Abiathar were priests
    (http://mobile.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=Ahitub&qs_version=NIV)
    -----
    -Weren't they both (sons' families) serving different offices at the same time by family responsibilities in the tabernacle, as Aaron's sons were separated by duty in the wilderness? Which, though, was high priest and how was it decided? How did it pass on? There were also high priests for each Levite town, or at least one for each city of refuge. Perhaps Nob was one of these? But if so, why did he have the ephod with Urim and Thummim? Which Levitical city did the highest high priest (ex. Eleazar in the wilderness, or did this highest high priest thing end in the wilderness after the division of the Levites among the Levitical cities?) live in?

    #18: What's the difference between burnt and guilt/sin offerings (which I understand are two different things- but where does the burnt offering fit in... is it just a general term because the sacrifices were literally burnt)?
    (I got some answers that were very satisfactory concerning sin/guilt differences. I'm still wondering about the burnt question.)
     
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  4. Here are some to consider…

    #5: 1 Samuel 20:6. How could they offer a sacrifice in Bethlehem when they were only to be made at the Temple? I know this is a fabrication by David, but then they probably did happen with some families. But how?

    Where do you get the idea that they are only supposed to be made in the Temple? All the scriptures about sacrifices in Leviticus refer to the Tabernacle and even this passage you refer to speaks of a time when the Temple had not yet been built! There has always been personal sacrifices (see Abel, Noah, Abraham, etc.,) and the Passover sacrifice (in each Household) but the corporate sacrifices were always done at the Tabernacle. In David’s time as King he had the Tabernacle in Jerusalem

    #6: People often made covenant promises as well as oaths by God in the OT. Is this in conflict now with the later command in James 5:12, "Above all, my brothers and sisters, do not swear—not by heaven or by earth or by anything else. All you need to say is a simple “Yes” or “No.” Otherwise you will be condemned."

    Not really. This is because of the different natures of the two covenants (the Old and the New). The Mosaic Covenant was an IF/Then covenant and therefore an oath or commitment was required. IF you do this THEN I will do this, but IF you do that, THEN I will do that (see all of Deuteronomy 28 for one example)…in the New, Christ has made the commitment, done all perfectly, and though He was blameless was put to death. In the Old God said do this and do not so that…in the New He who promised also did it…He insists on the agreement in this covenant so if they failed they were without excuse

    #7: Did other people around the world live as long as Noah? Why does the 120 year limit start in Genesis but people were still living beyond it later on? (
    Genesis 6:3) When was the last person to live beyond it?

    Well though IMO the 120 years does not refer to individual life spans but the time mankind would still be on the earth before the flood came to wipe them all out (God was giving them time to repent, but they would not), the last remaining person mentioned that lived Lonnnggg, as far as I can discern was Shem the son of Noah but where the Bible is silent I find it is best to be silent (conjecture is fun but we cannot be dogmatic on such points). Psalm 90 tells us the life of a man to be three score and ten, so that would be about 70 years old.

    #8: 1 Samuel 16- an evil spirit from God?

    God uses the propensity already present (that He knows they will not repent of) and amplifies or directs it for His glory or purpose...for example, Pharaoh's heart was already hardened against Israel God merely used this propensity when it says He hardened Pharaoh's heart (it was not like Pharaoh sympathized and wanted the best for Israel and God did this against his will).
    Another is Nebi...Nebi had already wanted to destroy Jerusalem and take them captive but they could not because His hand was protecting them...but when the divorce came He used Nebi's hatred as His own sword...likewise here...if you read this in context you will see these were already lying prophets...by sending the lying spirit He merely enhances what they already were (not like if they were faithful God fearing prophets who He made lie against their will)

    Confusion about David's census, too:
    (
    2 Samuel 24:1)"Again the anger of the Lord burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, “Go and take a census of Israel and Judah.” (1 Chronicles 21:1) "Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel."

    Apparently we had this dilemma in another alleged contradiction…this difference (2 sam to 1 Chron) is only present after the Masoretic Text (not made until 900 A.D.) which is adopted by a lot of Western Translators, but the LXX (1200 years before the Masoretes) says



    24:1 And the Lord caused his anger to burn forth again in Israel, and Satan stirred up David against them, saying, Go, number Israel and Juda.

    So 1200 years before the Masoretes, the Jewish understanding was that they agreed. But the Aramaic Peshitta agrees with the Hebrew Masoretes in 2nd Sam but doe not have 1 Chronicles at all (at least not my version from http://www.peshitta.org)

    #9: Why was Israel restored (1940's)? Deuteronomy 30.

    Israel was restored many times…we may never know WHY God gives this 1948 restoration. It may well be just another anti-type awaiting the perfect fulfillment when Messiah rules there. People have differing opinions...we will see...but interestingly the prophecies of the restored tongue, the bringing of Jews from the uttermost North (Russia) and Ethiopia (the Falasha), the increased rainfall, the 6 day war, etc., all do apply to this Israel so who knows...we will see

    #10: Why/how does modern archaeology 'confirm' Jericho was abandoned 300 years before the Hebrews got there?

    It doesn’t. Those who do, do so because they followed the assertions made by Dame Kathleen Kenyon who (maybe because of Cecil B. DeMill) believed Ramses was the Pharaoh in the time of Moses and the Exodus (which would place Moses and thus Joshua in the land 200 years too late), but this was an error as Ramses was not the Pharaoh…the Exodus took place 480 years before Solomon built the Temple in his 4th year as King (970 – 966 B.C.) and that places the Exodus and thus Joshua in the land around 1450 – 1400 B.C. and NOT 1200 B.C. and thus in the land when Jericho was destroyed. All the other cities destroyed by fire (as was Jericho) were all dated to be from the correct time (around 1400 B.C.) but because of the Pharonic error, the dating is seen as 200 years too early (in other words it is an assumption based conclusion, the dating is correct the placement of the man is not). The more complete explanation takes much more…I will send you some info…

    #11: Why does carbon dating put ancient civilizations before the creation?


    Again this would take a small book…Carbon dating was found to be in error (more and more) the farther back you go and this for many reasons)…see this article in a very reliable journal, Science (Vol. 141, 1963, pg. 636), which revealed that by the C-14 dating alone, “tissues from living mollusks“ were demonstrated to be “dead for over 3,000 years“, while on the other hand, one Egyptian mummy historically known to be about 2000 year old, could not yield a date older than 250 years. Hello-o! Living mollusks dead for over three thousand years? Can this really be relied upon? Hmmm!

    Likewise testing similar to those performed at Mt. St. Helen’s were done on lava samples from Hawaii clearly showing that 200 year old lava formations tested out to be approximately 3,000,000 years old! That’s millions folks, not thousands! The truth is 200 years is a far cry from even 1,000 let alone 1 million. But 3,000,000? I think not. What about you?

    This is why C-14 is now combined with Argon dating and other methods and then a “line of best guess” is determined by average or median assumptions (as a Clinical Trial Assistant we use this “line” all the time in drawing generally plausible conclusions). Like Nutcracker Man (really a southern ape) was tested by both methods and come with probabilities ranging from 3,000 years old to 1,000,000,000. After many tests the line of best guess was 175,000 years old but the truth is he could have been closer to the 3,000 or in the millions.

    Secondly, the most ancient “civilizations” we have found are no more than 5,000 years old and the hardest line Young Earth Creationists (who accept Genesis 1 days are all 24 hour days) date the earth to be 6,000 years (so not older than creation)…but “yom” translated “day” can mean a year, a lifetime, 1,000 years or even an undefined epoch of time.

    #12: The tabernacle seems to be moving around a lot. It's difficult to tell where it is.
    -Example: In
    1 Samuel 21:1, is it there? Nob isn't listed as a Levitical city. Are there more Levite cities now?

    There were many Priestly cities/towns that were/are not mentioned on the Bible. The Bible does NOT list the names of every single city and town in Israel. We never hear of Nazareth till Jesus but it was there. The Bible does not say 2+2=4 but it is truly so.

    Nob was a priestly city in the area of Benjamin. After Shiloh (the place not the future person) the Tabernacle moved wherever the Glory (called the Shekinah) of YHVH moved…when the Glory moved they moved the Tabernacle, then after that IMO it moved according to the High Priest, and the priests changed according to the courses (like when Zacharias, the Baptist’s father, was serving it was the course of Abijah),,,each course served two courses a year and all gathered for the three major priestly Feast days (Deuteronomy 16:16 says“Three times in a year all your males shall appear before the Lord your God in the place which He chooses, at the Feast of Unleavened Bread and at the Feast of Weeks and at the Feast of Booths, and they shall not appear before the Lord empty-handed.”) At this time in 1 Samuel Abiathar (Ahimelech’s son) is High Priest and Ahimelech was ministering the Table of Shewbread…

    Could the Levites live in a non-Levitical city? Which type? For example, can non-tabernacle/temple workers, aka non-serving normal everyday Levites live wherever, but priests only served in Levitical cities? If so, why was Ahimelek serving in Nob?

    As for your first half there is no Biblical answer (ask God when you see Him) but I suppose they could. As for the second half, in my opinion Ahimelech’s son (Abiathar) was the High Priest at the time (in agreement with Jesus) and so his family (in his course) was serving at the tabernacle...Ahimelelch was ministering at the Table of Shewbread (thus not the High Priest)

    #13: In
    1 Samuel 20; why did David need to hide behind the rock for the arrow shenanigan if Jonathan was able to just speak to him directly?

    Jonathan was able to speak to David directly on the previous day, so one has NOTHING to do with the other. Jonathan and David agreed to this plan so Jonathan could safely communicate to David his father’s attitude toward him.


    #14:
    1 Samuel 21. Three questions...

    First, was Ahimelek wrong for giving the consecrated bread to David?

    No!

    Also, at the end of the chapter, there are two things that strike me as odd. First, what was Goliath's sword doing in Nob? I thought David brought those things to his own tent and to Jerusalem. ("David took the Philistine’s head and brought it to Jerusalem; he put the Philistine’s weapons in his own tent." - 1 Samuel 17:54 NIV) Why was it in Nob? Second, why did he flee to Gath?!

    Where was David? He was in/near to Nob…so why wouldn’t he have his prized possessions with him…

    #15:
    1 Samuel 14:3 & Nehemiah 10:26 both have the same root word for the name Ahijah/Ahiah. Why is the name written differently in English (Ahijah & Ahiah)? Note that NIV and KJV both use both names, but usage is reversed!

    The NIV is a mess and IMO not a good translation at all….if you want a more detailed explanation ask me off forum….but in this case the Y or J is implied in the pronunciation anyway so either is correct (one more toward the Hebrew) but the Hebrew is Achiyah (pronounced yah not jah)

    #17: How did the high priesthood end up in the house of Ithamar (
    1 Samuel 21; 1 Chronicles 24:3) versus Eleazar? Was it a family line (father to son) or an elected office?

    As indicated earlier…it is because of the course (24 courses per year, each family served twice for a week at a time, and all gathered for the three major priestly feasts)


    -Also, why was the tabernacle moved to Nob (
    1 Samuel 21)?

    Already explained….


     
  5. Wow! amazing that some would spend so much time to find these "contradictions"? What drives those who spend so much time, trying to defeat what they do not believe? I am often amazed at those who reject Christ... it seems in the conflict of their spirit and conscience they spend great effort trying to defeat a God they do not believe is real. Or do they?
     
  6. Funny, I thought someone wanted folks to do their homework for them. But I loved the response posts!
     
  7. Yes, our brother Paul seems to be a gift from God.
     
  8. I really liked ioxye_8 posts as well. I love to learn (psst - what does ioxye stand for?)
     
  9. yes Go Ioxye...
     
  10. But even then couldn't they only offer a sacrifice at the place where the tabernacle was?
     
  11. I responded to this claim earlier by posting my college degree on the thread. Disappointed in these thoughts- "why would someone ask all these questions about the Bible unless it was for a teacher?" Truly it is for a teacher. My teacher is Christ.
     
  12. I AM S
    I AM STUNNED!! No, my brothers! I believe WHOLEHEARTEDLY! I am asking about these things because I an the one who does not understand! Obviously God has not made mistakes, I need to understand better! I am not flawless so I hit snags. They are all straightened out in time as I continue to learn. And I spend a few hours per day in study with the Word, so that is how I've come across them.
     
  13. I AM S
    I AM STUNNED!! No, my brothers! I believe WHOLEHEARTEDLY! I am asking about these things because I an the one who does not understand! Obviously God has not made mistakes, I need to understand better! I am not flawless so I hit snags. They are all straightened out in time as I continue to learn. And I spend a few hours per day in study with the Word, so that is how I've come across them.
     
  14. Sorry - I did not mean offense. When I initially read your post, I said what I originally thought in response to Mitspa. I did not think in terms of "contradictions." I was delighted with the response from Brother Paul and Ioxye and was meaning I appreciated your original post more. Without it, the responses meant nothing.
     
    Jamn likes this.
  15. The personal sacrifices (like Abel's Noah's Abrahams...one lamb per man) and the passover sacrifices (one lamb per household) could be offered pretty much anywhere. All the sacrifices of the Levitical order (instructed by God) had to be at the appropriate place and in the Tabernacle or Temple...
     
  16. Thank
    I see! :)
     
  17. #11: Why does carbon dating put ancient civilizations before the creation?

    Again this would take a small book…

    Haha! Yes it would..
     
  18. #12: The tabernacle seems to be moving around a lot. It's difficult to tell where it is.
    -Example: In 1 Samuel 21:1, is it there? Nob isn't listed as a Levitical city. Are there more Levite cities now?

    yes ..
    Mat 12:3 But He said to them, “Have you not read what David did when he became hungry, he and his companions,
    Mat 12:4 how he entered the house of God, and they ate the consecrated bread, which was not lawful for him to eat nor for those with him, but for the priests alone?

    How does this relate ? 0-o i think you meant the other question. Good answer for that, but what about this one?
     
  19. Secondly, the most ancient “civilizations” we have found are no more than 5,000 years old and the hardest line Young Earth Creationists (who accept Genesis 1 days are all 24 hour days) date the earth to be 6,000 years (so not older than creation)…but “yom” translated “day” can mean a year, a lifetime, 1,000 years or even an undefined epoch of time.

    Muy interesante! I agree it's indeterminable as of now.
     
  20. Also, at the end of the chapter, there are two things that strike me as odd. First, what was Goliath's sword doing in Nob? I thought David brought those things to his own tent and to Jerusalem. ("David took the Philistine’s head and brought it to Jerusalem; he put the Philistine’s weapons in his own tent." - 1 Samuel 17:54 NIV) Why was it in Nob? Second, why did he flee to Gath?!

    I don't know .. people can move stuff it they want .. lol

    Haha! Yes i guess so. :D
     

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