Men and Women in heaven.

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Remnant said:
Ginger, How do you see this scripture: Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. In reference to angels. Can they procreate or not? Are angels like scripture says or they another breed of angels different from all who are in heaven and those cast out?
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The angels in Heaven and those who left and came to earth are in different camps. Can they? Scripture has shown reference that they can. Do they? Scripture shows that those still in God's presence choose not to. Hence, do not.

I personally feel that angels are angels whether fallen or not. Their circumstance dictates what they are today. As in angels and demons. So their "lineage" is all the same at the core.

I also feel that after the Resurection, humans will not procreate, as there will be no need. We will be truly considered brothers and sisters then. And since incest is a sin, whether adoptive, step-family or biological, and there will be no sin in Heaven, we all can see the conclusion Jesus is coming to.
 
Ramsey said:
By the way, I don't know where I heard that along time ago but someone mentioned (not on this forum) that the reason for the Flood was because the devil and his evil angels had intercourse with the people of the earth and all became wicked.
I recently starting reading and studying Genesis, and during Noah's story I don't remember seeing any verse mentioning devils having intercourse with humans.

I guess it's people just spreading lies, just like the lie about the Apple in the tree of knowledge, there is no apple, it says fruit not apple.
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Careful.....the Bible doesn't say that. I don't mind a little speculation, but we can't assume something is fact when it's not clearly stated in Scripture. I think they were angels of some sort, but I DO NOT claim that. The Scriptures do not say it.

Ginger
 
Remnant said:
Ginger, Again I asked:

Did I miss something or you just did not give answer? This is very important because this determines the nature of angels.

1 Corinthians 15:39-40
39 All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial (heavenly) bodies and terrestrial (earthly) bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
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I didn't give an answer....we don't know what angels are. There are different types of being we call angels and the Bible states they have different purposes.

Some we know can take on the form of a human being. Some can chose evil - even tho Scriptures say angels are messengers of God and guardians for humans.

We don't know all there is to know and since God didn't make it all clear in the Scriptures, I don't think it is all that important to understand.

Ginger
 
el Pollo said:
The angels in Heaven and those who left and came to earth are in different camps. Can they? Scripture has shown reference that they can. Do they? Scripture shows that those still in God's presence choose not to. Hence, do not.

I personally feel that angels are angels whether fallen or not. Their circumstance dictates what they are today. As in angels and demons. So their "lineage" is all the same at the core.

I also feel that after the Resurection, humans will not procreate, as there will be no need. We will be truly considered brothers and sisters then. And since incest is a sin, whether adoptive, step-family or biological, and there will be no sin in Heaven, we all can see the conclusion Jesus is coming to.
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I agree.

Ginger
 
El Pollo, You said:
Scripture shows that those still in God's presence choose not to. Hence, do not.
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Are you saying that angels are free agents to do as they please. To choose to have sex or to choose to be a certain gender or not?

Mark 12:25
"For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.

Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Genesis 6:1-4 is one of the most controversial passages in the Bible. As with any difficult section of Scripture, it has been open to a wide range of interpretations. The two most prevalent interpretations are: (1) Women were having sexual relations with demonic beings (literally "sons of God," a term sometimes used for angels), and producing offspring who were part human, part demon. These mutants were said to be Nephilim, or heroes of old. (2) The "sons of God" were descendants of the godly line of Seth. Instead of remaining true to their godly heritage, they were "unequally yoked" with the ungodly line of Cain. Thus, civilization sank into depravity and subsequently was destroyed by the Flood.

I have been in ministry now over 25 years and most of that time as a pastor. Up until recently, let's say the last few years this Nephilim Hoax or false teaching would have never been taught or accepted in the churches. Their has been a move recently to propagate this teaching and I believe it is because so many celebrity preachers or prophecy teachers find it popular and it sells books or stirs the masses with a so called new revelation.

Someone recently said on another forum:


Quote:
It is a great topic to argue. However it changes little that Christ is our saviour and will keep all that put their trust in him from all harm until we spend eternity with him.


But it does change things, for Christ came to save that which is lost and He also came as savior of the world. He came as the sacrificial Lamb, He came to redeem mankind from their sin.

He did not come to save demons or fallen angels.
From this Nephilim hoax comes a false teaching that says that their is a blood line or demon seed blood line that are upon this earth today. Part human and part demon. It is also a way to explain the sudden appearances of UFOs and Alien life forms.

This is nothing more than falsehood and a lie, Other scriptures tells us that angels are also terrestrial beings. They are neither male nor female. They are spirits. Hebrews 1:14

They can appear as humans but they are still spirits. 2 Kings 6:15-17).
 
Remnant,

I am not trying to teach Scripture. If I were I would remain true to what Scripture actually says.

Scripture, on this particular verse, is obscure - telling me God did not find it important enough for his children to fret over.

As long as we are true to the message of God in that human beings are in a fallen state and need the grace of God offered in Christ Jesus, I don't think it's a big deal to speculate over the mysteries God has not filled us in on.

The only problem I see is that we must be sure to state that our speculation is just that, speculation. And that what we truly and deeply believe must be consistent with the Holy Scriptures.

In other words:

If it is in the Scriptures I must believe it,
If it is not clear in Scriptures, I am not bound to believe it,
If it contradicts Scriptures I must reject it as a lie.

God knows we are ignorant.

If it were important to know who these "sons of God" are, I would study the Scriptures to see if there is clear evidence to their identity,

but since they are of no importance, except to teach me to keep my eyes fixed on Jesus and not be consumed with evil thoughts and desires,....

I'm truly sorry I've wasted so much time discussing evil beings/humans/whatevers when I could have been praising God for all He has been doing in my life these past months.

If there is a lesson in all of this that is what I have learned.

The Lord is good to me despite my foolishness.

God Bless
 
angels are very good people,if 2/3 are good why be bothered about muppets.1/3 good,2/3.evil.3/3.life.it,s not our fault we have dead muppets.:eek:
 
Are you saying that angels are free agents to do as they please. To choose to have sex or to choose to be a certain gender or not?
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I am basing this on the Scripture that was applied to this thread. That is my evidence, and I stated my conclusion.

Besides, although I have no biblical evidence to support my view, I doubt that there are any female angels.
 
I am sorry, but I thought I provided plenty of scripture.

Here are some scripture concerning the doctrine of angels. Maybe this will help and maybe it won't.

The Doctrine of Angels
I. The Existence of Angels

A.. The Bible assumes their existence.

1. 34 books (of 66 total) refer to angels.

2. Christ taught their existence (Matt.8:10; 24:31; 26:53 etc.).

B. The Bible describes their creation.

1. Angels were created by God (Ps.148:2,5; Col.1:16). Only God had no beginning (1 Tim.6:16).

2. Angels were created before the world and man (Job 38:6,7).

3. Angels were created holy (Ezek.28:15; Jude 6).

II. The Nature of Angels

A. Angels are personal beings.

1. They have intellect (Matt.28:5; 1 Pet.1:12).

2. They have emotions (Job 38:7; Luke 2:13; 15:10)

3. They have will (Jude 6).

B. Angels are spirit beings.

1. They exist as spirits – not with material bodies (Heb. 1:14).

a. An angel can be in only one place at one time (Dan.9:21-23; 10:10-14)

b. Although they are spirit beings, they can appear in the form of men (in dreams – Matt.1:20; in natural sight with human functions – Gen.18: 1-8; 22: 19:1; seen by some and not others – 2 Kings 6:15-17).

2. They cannot reproduce (Mark 12:25).

3. They do not die (Luke 20:36).

C. Angels have communicable attributes in a degree greater than man but less than God.

1. They have more knowledge than man (Matt.24:31; Luke 1:13-16) but less than God (Matt.24:36).

2. They have more power than man (2 Pet.2:11; acts 5:19) but less than God.

D. Angels are organized and ranked. One “archangel,” Michael is named (Jude 9). There are also “chief princes” (Dan.10:13), “seraphim” (Is.6:1-3) and “cherubim” (Gen.3:22-24).

III. The Ministries of Angels

A. They worship God. Angels are continually involved in praising God (Rev.4:6-11) through describing His attributes (Is.6:3) and singing praises (Rev.5:8,9).

B. They ministered to Christ. Angels announced His birth (Luke 1:26-33; 2:13), protected Him (Matt.2:13), strengthened Him (Matt.4:11; Luke 22:43), and explained to men His resurrection (Matt.28:6) and ascension (Acts 1:10,11).

C. They carry out God’s government. Angels are God’s servants (Ps.103:20; Heb.1:7) and messengers (Luke 1:19; 2:8-14). They can be involved in controlling nature (Rev.7:1; 16:3,8,9), nations (2 Kings 19:35), and Satan and demons (Dan.10:13,21; 12:1). They will perform future judgment for God (Matt.13:3a; Rev.15:1; 16:1-21).

D. They protect God’s people. Angels are sent to serve believers (Heb.1:14). They protect the godly (Ps.34:7; Dan.6:20,23), oppose our enemies (Ps.35:4,5) and are specifically assigned as guardians of individuals (Matt.18:10). They are God’s agents in answering prayer (Acts 12:7) even bringing physical provisions (Gen.21:17-20; 1 Kings 19:5-7).

E. They assist believers at death (Luke 16:22; Jude 9).
 
Hi people-

Check out Job 38:7, where God asks Job where he was, when God laid the foundations of the earth, and the "stars" of Heaven sang- (female angels), and the "Son's of God" shouted for joy.

This is a clear reference. And look at that Rev. 1 Scripture I mentioned above, where John sees the 7 "stars" in His Hand, which are the 7 Angels to the churches.

So, the "stars" are female Angels. Why otherwise would God distinguish the "Son's of God"- (male Angels), from the "stars" of Heaven, if were not of a gender?

Think people.

To top it off, we find male Angels were mostly sent by God to His people on earth. This does not mean every one was where there is no "gender oriented" description.

What I wonder about is, God's own Children always wanting to put God in a box. Never paying close enough attention to detail in Scripture to pick obvious points out.

Besides, if Christ declares man shall be as the Angels are, thats not negating the female gender, only speaking of the spiritual form we will be in, as well as single, since the reference states there will be none married nor given in marriage. Why?

So our full attention individually will be only on God alone.

Lastly- If God never took anything but thier "first estate" away from Lucifer and his followers when were removed from Heaven. Why would we assume then, God would remove our pre-existing gender from earthen life, when in Heaven?

Again, think people. Theres alot moere clues to what people call this as a "riddle", if just pay attention to Scriptures and details of them.

As long as God shows a clear distinction between the Angels in Heaven, we will also keep our "distinction" per individual including gender, when get there too.

God Bless!!
 
shouting for joy and singing are not the same thing xD

You keep saying clear distinction. as if it's written Female and Male.
but it's not. it says Stars.

this is the Hebrew word for stars
H3556
כּוכב
kôkâb
ko-kawb'
Probably from the same as H3522 (in the sense of rolling) or H3554 (in the sense of blazing); a star (as round or as shining); figuratively a prince: - star ([-gazer]).

:D

hey if it's female angels then that's great. and if it's not, that's great too :D
 
ok, part 2- What are Angels?

1- Check out what Angels were described like when visited Abraham and Sarah.

2- Check out the descriptions of Angels who appeared to Lot.

3- Check out the description of Angels who visited Daniel.

4- Check out the Angels Ezekiel saw in that vision of the 4 of them moving around with wings, holding hand to hand, forward, backward, turning, etc.

5- Check out how Christ looked to the Disciples when appeared to them after ressurrection. He scared them half to death, thinking they'd seen a "spirit".

5- Read in Revelation, the Descriptions of the Angels John seen applying the judgements of God on the earth.

People, how can you miss such easy points to know the Truth? Angels of God were seen by John alone in human shape during Revelation. And these were scenes in Heaven which Angels looked like you and I, with of course thier perfected Glorified human shaped bodies. How?

They blew trumpets, they saw, they spoke, they held objects in thier "hands", on and on. What more proof do you need people?

Wow, I pray this helps-

God Bless!!
 
I don't understand. are you now arguing that angels exist or that angels are both females and males ?

because we all here know that angels exist and were created a bit higher than humans.

What we don't agree so far though, without biblical proof, is that there are both females and males. we believe it's "males" or simply one race.

=D

Peace to you brother :)
 
Ramsey-

Good responce, but I suggest you probably left out part of that translation from Hebrew, because it goes further in that translation to say this in my 1970's Strong's Concordance- "Heavenly Powers that serve God."

* In my 1950's Strong's Concordance it states- "Angels". Now, if want to look up some old ancient Early Church Leader Commentaries, from the 1st 3 centuries of the Church Age, you'll find references of the word "stars" such as in Job and Rev. 1 they refer to them as Angels.

* To add to that, those Early Church Commentaries, where spoke on Job reference, refered to the "stars" as female Angels, because of the reference right after it of the "Son's of God" reference.

* To add to that still, since God did not create the "stars" and planets in the universe until the 3rd day after creating the earth, how then could that "stars" reference in Job 38:7 refer to celestial bodies?

* And- Take a look at a very very old Webster's Dictionary. You'll find Webster, from back in the Colonial Days when he was involved in the starting of our Country- (US), he also wrote up the first American Dictionary.

In those dictionaries, all the way up until the 1940s, also included Biblical references along with regular secular definitions. And in the Biblical notations under the word "stars" in his dictionaries from the 1930s I know because I seen it, a Biblical reference was made to Job 38 with the definitions- (Angelic beings).

Enough, or do you want more?

This has nothing to do with if Angels exist. Everyone wanted proof of there being male and female Angels. I just shared some of it.

God Bless!!
 
Brother I only used a program that Larry told me about and I gave you all that was written in that dictionary. Whatever else you have is not part of what I had so do not say that I probably left out.

Secondly, if you read through this thread you will notice that we all agree already that Stars in that type of verse are angels (especially post # 38)


Have a blessed day brother.
 
Ramsey-

Forgive me, been a Minister preaching and teaching so long, I'm a bit bold at times. I mean't no offense.

I did mess up tho too, I left out something I rechecked later after posting. A few of those Early Church Leaders did make reference to the "stars" in the Job 38 reference being female, because right after, God states- "Son's of God".

Therefore, they concluded, because "stars"- (celestial bodies), were not formed before the foundation of the earth, "stars" had to be Angels.

Secondly- They pointed out because God made direct gender reference with "Son's of God" for those shouting, the singing "stars", would therefore have to be female Angels.

Sorry about that, I'm somewhat of a stickler on details. I don't mind others leaving things out, I just point them out, but do get irritated with myself when do that. But know as well Ramsey, there may be other info out there, I haven't come across either.

Nearly 30 years of researching is a long time. But, going by Postal Service slows things down too.

God Bless!!
 
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