Megachurches

The career priest means we PAY for The Word.

The word then is back in the holy of holies and under their control.

This is what The King came to stop. The Levites from being the holders of The Word.

Paul says that ALL are priests of the order when called. Not just want a seminary or bible college says. ALL.

We should ALL be priests in the order and spread the Good News. Workers and Clerics.

Not just clerics. Because that becomes rife with entitlement. It is why The Catholic Church owns so much and Televangelists exist.

It is NOT the way.

To be sure, I don't believe someone has to attend seminary to be a good pastor. Life experience can give someone perspective as well. However, I think it is profitable for someone who wants to be in ministry to have a seminary education so that they understand biblical context, historical interpretations, differing theologies, etc. etc. For instance, if I'm going to a Methodist Church, I want my Pastor to know why he and the congregation is Methodist and not Anglican or Pentecostal.

Aside from that, having a good general education can bring him wisdom and oversight that he would not otherwise have.
 
To be sure, I don't believe someone has to attend seminary to be a good pastor. Life experience can give someone perspective as well. However, I think it is profitable for someone who wants to be in ministry to have a seminary education so that they understand biblical context, historical interpretations, differing theologies, etc. etc. For instance, if I'm going to a Methodist Church, I want my Pastor to know why he and the congregation is Methodist and not Anglican or Pentecostal.

Aside from that, having a good general education can bring him wisdom and oversight that he would not otherwise have.
Or the Holy Spirit can teach them just like He did for the disciples and apostles.

All of which never went to school for Christianity and even wrote the books that colleges teach from.
 
Or the Holy Spirit can teach them just like He did for the disciples and apostles.

All of which never went to school for Christianity and even wrote the books that colleges teach from.

Really?

The Apostles were "taught" by Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit teaches people through people. The Holy Spirit has not authored a single book in the Bible, but He has inspired the authorship of all. To this day I've not met a single pastor who has not learned the Christian faith from another Christian.

And if the Holy Spirit just teaches us these things, why even need a pastor in the first place?
 
If the fellowship does not feed and sustain the people, it is meaningless.

No matter where their heart is.
I agree. Whole heartedly.

But maybe instead of judging, maybe start praying for them if you truly think that they are in the wrong. What can judgment bring that prayer can't? Can I personally ask if you've ever been to a megachurch? Because from I'm hearing, you think all megachurches are bad just from the comments that you've written. THat's like saying, "ALl men are the same," or "ALl women are the same." It's not true. I may be wrong, and I"m sorry. But that is what I'm perceiving as I'm reading your comments.

Some things that you are saying DO hold truth. I'm not disagreeing with that. But you need to realize something: Not all megachurches are the same and have the same mindset. Neither are small churches. Every church is different. There are going to be negatives in a megachurch. Absolutely! But there will also be negatives in small churches. The megachurch I attend is great. I absolutely love it, I love for what it stands for. Nothings showy, nothing's begging for money. I've been to numerous megachurches where it seemed like that's what they were all about, but I know just because I've been to several doesn't mean that all megachurches are like that.
 
The career priest means we PAY for The Word.

The word then is back in the holy of holies and under their control.

This is what The King came to stop. The Levites from being the holders of The Word.

Paul says that ALL are priests of the order when called. Not just want a seminary or bible college says. ALL.

We should ALL be priests in the order and spread the Good News. Workers and Clerics.

Not just clerics. Because that becomes rife with entitlement. It is why The Catholic Church owns so much and Televangelists exist.

It is NOT the way.
If that's how you see it than I cannot change your perception. I value your opinion yet respectfully disagree.



I would not feel comfortable with a pastor making that much. I mean I can't judge them, but it is not becoming for a religious leader to be making as much as a captialist. I think they should have a comfortable living on par with the members of their congregation. Church shouldn't be about making large salaries, you can't serve two masters.

In the RCC the Pontiff right now is trying to get his archbishops to give up their million dollar mansions because of all the evils it has invited in.
Not a problem, it's ok if we disagree. The bottom line is that America is a capitalist society and, as such, hard work is rewarded with a higher salary. I'm happy about that and wouldn't want it any other way, provided the LORD guided and willed it.
 
Really?

The Apostles were "taught" by Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit teaches people through people. The Holy Spirit has not authored a single book in the Bible, but He has inspired the authorship of all. To this day I've not met a single pastor who has not learned the Christian faith from another Christian.

And if the Holy Spirit just teaches us these things, why even need a pastor in the first place?

The disciples were taught by Jesus. The apostles received their teaching by The Holy Spirit.

Both were taught directly by God.

And IF the Holy Spirit needs a fallible human to instill The Word, then I would be gravely worried about The Holy Spirit.
 
I agree. Whole heartedly.

But maybe instead of judging, maybe start praying for them if you truly think that they are in the wrong. What can judgment bring that prayer can't? Can I personally ask if you've ever been to a megachurch? Because from I'm hearing, you think all megachurches are bad just from the comments that you've written. THat's like saying, "ALl men are the same," or "ALl women are the same." It's not true. I may be wrong, and I"m sorry. But that is what I'm perceiving as I'm reading your comments.

Some things that you are saying DO hold truth. I'm not disagreeing with that. But you need to realize something: Not all megachurches are the same and have the same mindset. Neither are small churches. Every church is different. There are going to be negatives in a megachurch. Absolutely! But there will also be negatives in small churches. The megachurch I attend is great. I absolutely love it, I love for what it stands for. Nothings showy, nothing's begging for money. I've been to numerous megachurches where it seemed like that's what they were all about, but I know just because I've been to several doesn't mean that all megachurches are like that.
I have been in home churches, small ones and huge ones with thousands of people.

These huge churches cannot feed everyone. People WILL be left out and feel like a number. I know I did.

The best experience was in a home church. Or here online with all of the people here.

I know I do not get along with all of the people here. But I find their testimonies are far more powerful and meaningful than any 10k seat place with the feel of a rock concert than a fellowship.

I do not need to have huge displays flashing images and marshall stacks blaring stale music that sounds like drills should be going off in the background. I just need fellowship.
 
These huge churches cannot feed everyone. People WILL be left out and feel like a number. I know I did.
And therein lies why your perception is slanted in one direction. In the psychology field it's referred to as projection. Nothing wrong with it and very glad you disclosed it, as it will allow others who read this thread to form a well-rounded opinion for themselves on the topic.
 
The disciples were taught by Jesus. The apostles received their teaching by The Holy Spirit.

Both were taught directly by God.

And IF the Holy Spirit needs a fallible human to instill The Word, then I would be gravely worried about The Holy Spirit.

This is actually a pet peeve of mine. "The Word" is not the Bible, it is another name (Logos) for Jesus.

But yes, the Holy Spirit works through other (fallible) people. In the case of prophets, He protected them from error. I don't think it is accurate to say that He gave them manuscripts to write down, He used their own wisdom and experience to produce sacred scripture.

Pastors, priests and bishops are not protected from error in the same way. But, I do believe that the faith of the Apostles has been preserved.
 
This is actually a pet peeve of mine. "The Word" is not the Bible, it is another name (Logos) for Jesus.

But yes, the Holy Spirit works through other (fallible) people. In the case of prophets, He protected them from error. I don't think it is accurate to say that He gave them manuscripts to write down, He used their own wisdom and experience to produce sacred scripture.

Pastors, priests and bishops are not protected from error in the same way. But, I do believe that the faith of the Apostles has been preserved.

The faith of the Apostles was placed in the new order given.

The denominations of today are proof of fruit that is contrary to the new order.

If they are of God, they would not be in opposition to the order.
 
I have been in home churches, small ones and huge ones with thousands of people.

These huge churches cannot feed everyone. People WILL be left out and feel like a number. I know I did.

The best experience was in a home church. Or here online with all of the people here.

I know I do not get along with all of the people here. But I find their testimonies are far more powerful and meaningful than any 10k seat place with the feel of a rock concert than a fellowship.

I do not need to have huge displays flashing images and marshall stacks blaring stale music that sounds like drills should be going off in the background. I just need fellowship.
Well, that's your own opinion and I respect your own thoughts on it :). I just know I have been impacted by my own church and can't agree that all megachurches have this one motive :)

I personally have felt left out of my own small church. There's bound to be one person who feels left out at any church, no matter the size. It's sad to hear that you felt left out of the megachurch. I know that is a common occurence at megachurches. My church tries to prevent that by setting up small groups and connecting with people, but as humans, we can't succeed in trying to reach to everyone even though we try.

I think we get along just fine :) I'm not angry or anything simply because my opinion differs from yours. I understand that and fully accept that our opinions are different. Doesn't mean that I'm angry or anything :) (I'm saying this because you mentioned, "I know that I don't get along with everyone here" and it made me wonder if you were saying that because you're thinking that I'm getting upset. So if that is the case, I am not.)
 
Well, that's your own opinion and I respect your own thoughts on it :). I just know I have been impacted by my own church and can't agree that all megachurches have this one motive :)

I personally have felt left out of my own small church. There's bound to be one person who feels left out at any church, no matter the size. It's sad to hear that you felt left out of the megachurch. I know that is a common occurence at megachurches. My church tries to prevent that by setting up small groups and connecting with people, but as humans, we can't succeed in trying to reach to everyone even though we try.

I think we get along just fine :) I'm not angry or anything simply because my opinion differs from yours. I understand that and fully accept that our opinions are different. Doesn't mean that I'm angry or anything :) (I'm saying this because you mentioned, "I know that I don't get along with everyone here" and it made me wonder if you were saying that because you're thinking that I'm getting upset. So if that is the case, I am not.)
No it is that I have a radical difference of opinion over many here.
 
My take on mega churches is that they often resemble a show or some kind if entertainment, which misses the point of why you are in church.
 
I have been to huge churches that were Awesome... I have been to huge churches that were train wrecks....
I have been to small churches that were great.... I have been to MANY MANY MORE small churches that were absolute train wrecks....

I have been to FAR MORE horrible small churches than horrible huge churches..... In general - I find small churches are FAR MORE likely to be train wrecks than Good.....

The difference is that they don't get ANY headlines at all....

Why? They can't afford ANYBODY with any sort of reasonable training... Their elders are poorly trained and poorly disciplined... Their "pastors" tend to be whoever the cat drags in and they can get to stay for free..... Since no tithes are coming in - they can't do anything... Since they never do anything - they don't have any good Deacons (Formal Servant leaders)... Since they don't have anybody - all their leadership is totally entrenched..... and it just spirals down the tubes...

On paying Preachers... A wise Apostle once said "You shall not muzzle the ox that treads the grain".....

Just like in business... You want talent - you have to do things to get that talent.... Some places can develop it in house... Most don't or can't...
 
No I am not.

I am of no denomination that is out there. I find them all having traditions that are contrary to The Order of Melchizedek.

Their priests are NOT the ones that are spoken of in scripture.

I just find it odd that you would call all denominations wrong. Was The apostolic faith allowed to pass from human memory?

I don't read a whole lot about Church organization save the few pastoral epistles, but the churches in Antioch, Rome, and Alexandria were all very early establishments and many of their early bishops were second generation apostles. Antioch even claims Peter was its first Bishop before he went on to Rome.
 
I just find it odd that you would call all denominations wrong. Was The apostolic faith allowed to pass from human memory?

I don't read a whole lot about Church organization save the few pastoral epistles, but the churches in Antioch, Rome, and Alexandria were all very early establishments and many of their early bishops were second generation apostles. Antioch even claims Peter was its first Bishop before he went on to Rome.

These schisms, with each one, goes farther and farther from the church that The King established while here.

Where ALL can be called by The Holy Spirit to be priests, not just men.
Where ONLY the Holy Spirit can ordain you, not a pieces of lambskin from a college, university or seminary.
Where the priesthood is not a career.
Where divorce can only be granted if there is adultery by one or both partners.
Where you cannot remarry unless your spouse dies.
Where Mammon is not part of the worship.
Where alms are given in secret.
Where sinners are loved, but not their sins.
Where the Two Great Commands, not the ten, not the 613, are the ONLY commands to be upheld.
Where the faithful are reminded that we do not wage war of the flesh but of the spirit.
Where we render unto the fallen world what is theirs.
Where we do not yoke the righteous with the unrighteous.
Where we do not sell Grace.
Where we harm not the innocent.
Where we keep the Two Great Commands.
Where we use all scripture for teaching and reproof, not just what we traditionally say is canon.
Where we place The King on the throne, not ourselves.

I see no denomination, at present that can do ALL of these. They do some, or only in part.

The church is in disarray and is in need of revival.
 
These schisms, with each one, goes farther and farther from the church that The King established while here.

Where ALL can be called by The Holy Spirit to be priests, not just men.
Where ONLY the Holy Spirit can ordain you, not a pieces of lambskin from a college, university or seminary.
Where the priesthood is not a career.
Where divorce can only be granted if there is adultery by one or both partners.
Where you cannot remarry unless your spouse dies.
Where Mammon is not part of the worship.
Where alms are given in secret.
Where sinners are loved, but not their sins.
Where the Two Great Commands, not the ten, not the 613, are the ONLY commands to be upheld.
Where the faithful are reminded that we do not wage war of the flesh but of the spirit.
Where we render unto the fallen world what is theirs.
Where we do not yoke the righteous with the unrighteous.
Where we do not sell Grace.
Where we harm not the innocent.
Where we keep the Two Great Commands.
Where we use all scripture for teaching and reproof, not just what we traditionally say is canon.
Where we place The King on the throne, not ourselves.

I see no denomination, at present that can do ALL of these. They do some, or only in part.

The church is in disarray and is in need of revival.

I generally don't disagree with you... on any of these points. With the exception of career priesthood, I have no problem with a pastor taking upon for his career to speak the Gospel. As far as their ordination goes, I do believe that it is the Holy Spirit that ordains someone, not a certificate. But we know if someone is filled with the Spirit only by the fruits they produce. Having particular procedures for ordination can also help circumscribe heresy.
 
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