meaningless trials

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Nor did I! It's so sad that people throw the baby out with the bath water...

Brother it is this No Fault Religious approach that far too many believers have. When something gets hard or goes wrong it is not my fault for it must be Gods will. It is easier to blame God or better yet pass the buck off to God as God is the great and mighty escape goat then it is to TAKE OWNERSHIP of your own CHOICES and ACTIONS.

The choices we make today which includes the words we speak lay up our tomorrow which can and is for most even a year later. They do not see them selves as the problem. They wont discipline them selves to truly learn how God created us to walk in this life according to His word. It is a slothful and lazy approach to a Christian walk.

They twist things such as His will and plan for the same thing. Simply put - they take His will for your life as His entire plan for you and what ever happens has to be His will. Truth be told His will is the same for every single one of us........for it is His word and ways of doing things - now then He also has a plan for every human being born of a woman. Neither of them have evil or bad or hardships in them.

They think that I prayed Gods will be done so it is automatically done. Hog Wosh ! You have to work at it - you have to change your thinking and ways of doing things. In order for Gods will to be done in any ones life or family - you have got to buckle down and seek His ways and operate in them. This what ever happens stuff is Gods will is a blinding stronghold the devil has had on the church for far too long.

God has given me much to say THROUGH HIS WORD and later I will begin.
Have a very blessed and beautiful day
God Bless
Jim

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Yeah isnt the Lords prayer 'they kingdom come, thy will be done?'
Not..'lord you promised ME! me me me whine whine whine...I know, I'm gonna declare it and claim it!'

Abdicate where did you get this theology from? It sound suspiciously like name it and claim it, or as it is widely known, blab it and grab it.

The promise to us has alway been eternal life.,that is the gift of the holy spirit and the heavenly kingdom. Jesus has never promised us money. He has something far better, our salvation and life with Him. And riches beyond what we can ask or think.

Lanolin God knows I love you sister but you really need to think before you speak.
What is His will Lanolin ? It is His every single word in His written word. So in order for His will to be done YOU and I and every one else must do our part. His will CAN ONLY be done in our lives when we are totally submitted unto Him and His ways. When we are totally submitted unto Him then we know His will from every day trials and testings and persecutions and tribulations and so forth.

You jump in with the name it claim it thing.........why ? is this from not truly grasping Gods word ? We are to stand on His promises. Faith means we do this for Faith believes with out doubt and faith does not say well this bad stuff must be Gods will for me.

Further more Lanolin, your view of Gods promises to us is found lacking and wanting.
His entire word if full of His promises to us - BUT you must always do what His word says in order to see them come to pass. So then standing on His word and or promises is a good thing and not some screw ball crying ordeal that you make it out to be.

God Bless You my sister and I love ya Lanolin
Jim

 

[Kathy]

The way I see our challenges and trials in life is like this: There are tons of variables that come up in life. Some of those may be the Lord directly, but some of those are either caused by either us or Satan. However--and this is vital, guys!--make no mistake that no matter what challenges happen to us in life, God will use them.

To try and debate which things that happen to us are God vs. us or an outside force is ultimately to debate whether a glass is half full or half empty. Far more valuable, in my opinion, would be to pray something along the lines of "Lord, I place [problem X] into your hands. Please use this to bring me closer to you. I pray that if there is something you wish for me to learn from [problem X] that it will be placed upon my heart. In Jesus name, Amen."

Basically, what I'm saying is that we tend to worry way too much about whether God sent a problem, rather than asking Him if there is a way in which he wants to use that situation regardless of whether He "started it" (as a little kid might think) or not.

 

[Abdicate]

Brother it is this No Fault Religious approach that far too many believers have. When something gets hard or goes wrong it is not my fault for it must be Gods will. It is easier to blame God or better yet pass the buck off to God as God is the great and mighty escape goat then it is to TAKE OWNERSHIP of your own CHOICES and ACTIONS.

The choices we make today which includes the words we speak lay up our tomorrow which can and is for most even a year later. They do not see them selves as the problem. They wont discipline them selves to truly learn how God created us to walk in this life according to His word. It is a slothful and lazy approach to a Christian walk.

They twist things such as His will and plan for the same thing. Simply put - they take His will for your life as His entire plan for you and what ever happens has to be His will. Truth be told His will is the same for every single one of us........for it is His word and ways of doing things - now then He also has a plan for every human being born of a woman. Neither of them have evil or bad or hardships in them.

They think that I prayed Gods will be done so it is automatically done. Hog Wosh ! You have to work at it - you have to change your thinking and ways of doing things. In order for Gods will to be done in any ones life or family - you have got to buckle down and seek His ways and operate in them. This what ever happens stuff is Gods will is a blinding stronghold the devil has had on the church for far too long.

God has given me much to say THROUGH HIS WORD and later I will begin.
Have a very blessed and beautiful day
God Bless
Jim

Amen! I just read this article today... so very true:

Americans have become so “non-judgmental” that many people can no longer tell the difference between good and evil. We congratulate ourselves for being “nicer,” more sensitive and less prejudiced than past generations of Americans, but we don’t stop to consider how much more there is to morality than that.
http://townhall.com/columnists/john...of-americas-moral-collapse-n2030199/page/full​

The more I learn about what faith really is, the more I understand the Ten Virgins and working out your own salvation and that it's all HIM and zero me!

 

[Abdicate]

Yeah isnt the Lords prayer 'they kingdom come, thy will be done?'
Not..'lord you promised ME! me me me whine whine whine...I know, I'm gonna declare it and claim it!'

Abdicate where did you get this theology from? It sound suspiciously like name it and claim it, or as it is widely known, blab it and grab it.

The promise to us has alway been eternal life.,that is the gift of the holy spirit and the heavenly kingdom. Jesus has never promised us money. He has something far better, our salvation and life with Him. And riches beyond what we can ask or think.

The word of God. All of it. Give it a name if you want to disparage it, that's what people do, so they can ignore what doesn't fit their thinking/experience and not feel guilty about it. But I got it from the word of God. If you don't like what I've said, you wouldn't like the expounded version.

 

[Abdicate]

The way I see our challenges and trials in life is like this: There are tons of variables that come up in life. Some of those may be the Lord directly, but some of those are either caused by either us or Satan. However--and this is vital, guys!--make no mistake that no matter what challenges happen to us in life, God will use them.

To try and debate which things that happen to us are God vs. us or an outside force is ultimately to debate whether a glass is half full or half empty. Far more valuable, in my opinion, would be to pray something along the lines of "Lord, I place [problem X] into your hands. Please use this to bring me closer to you. I pray that if there is something you wish for me to learn from [problem X] that it will be placed upon my heart. In Jesus name, Amen."

Basically, what I'm saying is that we tend to worry way too much about whether God sent a problem, rather than asking Him if there is a way in which he wants to use that situation regardless of whether He "started it" (as a little kid might think) or not.

You're on the right track, but God doesn't use hardships to teach us a lesson, James 1:14. You are right, when we humble ourselves to God, He will turn our circumstances around for good. But the evil doesn't come so good can come. That's like saying let's get sick so we can say we've been healed.

 

[Kathy]

You're on the right track, but God doesn't use hardships to teach us a lesson, James 1:14. You are right, when we humble ourselves to God, He will turn our circumstances around for good. But the evil doesn't come so good can come. That's like saying let's get sick so we can say we've been healed.

I totally agree with you, personally.

What I am saying, though, is that I can't see any reason why--once something is already in our life--that God isn't perfect / wonderful / brilliant / creative enough to make sure that if it's gonna be with us a while anyway that it isn't also going to do double duty by working for Him and being turned into an opportunity to bring us closer to Him.

I find this comforting; it means that problems (which, again, aren't necessarily from God--I'm trying to sidestep that debate entirely here as I don't think we're going to grow by arguing over it) that we face in life are not pointless; or at the very least need not remain that way.

Time and again we see stories in the Bible of God working through people who were definitely going through some tough times. I can't see why He would choose to do that back then and suddenly decide He doesn't feel like doing that now.

I hope that makes my view here a bit less murky.

I think we are all coming at this with at least a kernel of truth. I also don't necessarily think any of us, with any of our varying viewpoints, are going to change each other's minds overnight. And (to me) that's okay: we all have time to grow and strengthen what we believe.

We gain the Holy Spirit the instant that we accept Jesus into our hearts, but the work He does in us as we grow is something which is cultivated over our lifetime. Even if we feel we have learnt a deep and valuable truth in our own time with the Lord it is (in my opinion) essential that we realize that others may not be at the same stage as us.

We need to have patience with them and realize (much as many parents get stuck realizing with children) that once we live an experience that does not (alas!) mean that the entire world has had that experience through us. Some people need to figure things out first hand.

 

[Lanolin]

I don't think anybody said evil is there so good can come. Evil is there anyway. The world is fallen, you can't escape the suffering everyone must go through it, not all peoples sufferings are the same but it is suffering nevertheless.
To you it might seem small but to others it can break them. The stronger in faith we are, the more the enemy will try and go after us..if you are not actually believing in Jesus and in this bubble of 'good christian life' when things go wrong you won't have the faith to go through it and endure. So many people just give up at the end of the race.

 

[Lanolin]

Conclusion..your trials are not meaningless if you are a child of God.

 

[Lanolin]

Shadrach, Abednego and Mesach did NOT choose to go into the fiery furnace. They were put in their because they refused to worship the idol. It was the rule. Did they know the rule beforehand? I don't know, did they?
Even so, of course they didn't want to, but they trusted God so much and had faith that they went in anyway. without protest.

None of us deliberately get sick so that God can heal us. I asked you to meditate on the blind man, do you think he purposefully made himself blind? Doesn't matter - now he can see! who cares?!! All glory to God!

I think people are twisting scripture to fit into their particular theology rather than seeing what it actually says.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

The way I see our challenges and trials in life is like this: There are tons of variables that come up in life. Some of those may be the Lord directly, but some of those are either caused by either us or Satan. However--and this is vital, guys!--make no mistake that no matter what challenges happen to us in life, God will use them.

To try and debate which things that happen to us are God vs. us or an outside force is ultimately to debate whether a glass is half full or half empty. Far more valuable, in my opinion, would be to pray something along the lines of "Lord, I place [problem X] into your hands. Please use this to bring me closer to you. I pray that if there is something you wish for me to learn from [problem X] that it will be placed upon my heart. In Jesus name, Amen."

Basically, what I'm saying is that we tend to worry way too much about whether God sent a problem, rather than asking Him if there is a way in which he wants to use that situation regardless of whether He "started it" (as a little kid might think) or not.

Amen Kathy thast is the key point in this- seeking God in How to handle this

I don't think anybody said evil is there so good can come. Evil is there anyway. The world is fallen, you can't escape the suffering everyone must go through it, not all peoples sufferings are the same but it is suffering nevertheless.
To you it might seem small but to others it can break them. The stronger in faith we are, the more the enemy will try and go after us..if you are not actually believing in Jesus and in this bubble of 'good christian life' when things go wrong you won't have the faith to go through it and endure. So many people just give up at the end of the race.

Now thats more like the lanolin I know in here !!
Blessings

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

The way I see our challenges and trials in life is like this: There are tons of variables that come up in life. Some of those may be the Lord directly, but some of those are either caused by either us or Satan. However--and this is vital, guys!--make no mistake that no matter what challenges happen to us in life, God will use them.

To try and debate which things that happen to us are God vs. us or an outside force is ultimately to debate whether a glass is half full or half empty. Far more valuable, in my opinion, would be to pray something along the lines of "Lord, I place [problem X] into your hands. Please use this to bring me closer to you. I pray that if there is something you wish for me to learn from [problem X] that it will be placed upon my heart. In Jesus name, Amen."

Basically, what I'm saying is that we tend to worry way too much about whether God sent a problem, rather than asking Him if there is a way in which he wants to use that situation regardless of whether He "started it" (as a little kid might think) or not.

Hi Kathy,
Thats just it. In this world we will have tribulations and what we do in them and with them is what matters. Far too many times it is our own selves that are causing certain situations or trials in our lives by the way we live and operate in this world. When we walk in His ways we will face them with His word and Faith and seek His face in what we can do to change US so these things dont keep happening or loose more of us and gain more of Him.

Far too many people pass the buck off as it is God so they do not have to do anyting about it.
They dont have to change how they live or operate in this life and can simply say hey it's not my fault and do what ever they please. They tend to grow slow if at all and tend to drag others down and become way side to anything the Lord is trying to teach them or change in them.

God Bless You Kathy
Jim

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

I totally agree with you, personally.

What I am saying, though, is that I can't see any reason why--once something is already in our life--that God isn't perfect / wonderful / brilliant / creative enough to make sure that if it's gonna be with us a while anyway that it isn't also going to do double duty by working for Him and being turned into an opportunity to bring us closer to Him.

I find this comforting; it means that problems (which, again, aren't necessarily from God--I'm trying to sidestep that debate entirely here as I don't think we're going to grow by arguing over it) that we face in life are not pointless; or at the very least need not remain that way.

Time and again we see stories in the Bible of God working through people who were definitely going through some tough times. I can't see why He would choose to do that back then and suddenly decide He doesn't feel like doing that now.

I hope that makes my view here a bit less murky.

I think we are all coming at this with at least a kernel of truth. I also don't necessarily think any of us, with any of our varying viewpoints, are going to change each other's minds overnight. And (to me) that's okay: we all have time to grow and strengthen what we believe.

We gain the Holy Spirit the instant that we accept Jesus into our hearts, but the work He does in us as we grow is something which is cultivated over our lifetime. Even if we feel we have learnt a deep and valuable truth in our own time with the Lord it is (in my opinion) essential that we realize that others may not be at the same stage as us.

We need to have patience with them and realize (much as many parents get stuck realizing with children) that once we live an experience that does not (alas!) mean that the entire world has had that experience through us. Some people need to figure things out first hand.

Kathy you said (((What I am saying, though, is that I can't see any reason why--once something is already in our life--that God isn't perfect / wonderful / brilliant / creative enough to make sure that if it's gonna be with us a while anyway that it isn't also going to do double duty by working for Him and being turned into an opportunity to bring us closer to Him.))

This is very true but there is one BIG Problem in this however............this person has to want God to teach them and must willing to change. God wont force it on them. Without having a Willing heart to be Willing - they just suffer through it.
Blessings
Jim

 

[Abdicate]

Shadrach, Abednego and Mesach did NOT choose to go into the fiery furnace. They were put in their because they refused to worship the idol. It was the rule. Did they know the rule beforehand? I don't know, did they?
Even so, of course they didn't want to, but they trusted God so much and had faith that they went in anyway. without protest.

None of us deliberately get sick so that God can heal us. I asked you to meditate on the blind man, do you think he purposefully made himself blind? Doesn't matter - now he can see! who cares?!! All glory to God!

I think people are twisting scripture to fit into their particular theology rather than seeing what it actually says.

You're not reading what I've written and making things up - again. You link things I've never said and then accuse me of saying them. Be careful with what you read and what you write.

 

[Big Moose]

Some of my most favorite verses:
Genesis 50:20 But as for you, you meant evil against me; but God meant it for good, in order to bring it about as it is this day, to save many people alive.

1Peter 4:12 Beloved, do not think it strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened to you; 13 but rejoice to the extent that you partake of Christ’s sufferings, that when His glory is revealed, you may also be glad with exceeding joy. 14 If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified. 15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, a thief, an evildoer, or as a busybody in other people’s matters. 16 Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter.

Galatians 6:17 From now on let no one trouble me, for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus.

Romans 8:
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Lanolin]

Romans 8:28 pretty much sums it up.

I dont know you guys are arguing over it. I am not making anything up...but you abidcate seem to get all het up about things if nobody sees them exactly your way. And then start arguing over and over about it to try and prove your point. Same with you King J in response. Its ugly and not christian.

Pancakes you trials are not meaningless. If you love God they are not. Remember He loved you FIRST.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Romans 8:28 pretty much sums it up.

I dont know you guys are arguing over it. I am not making anything up...but you abidcate seem to get all het up about things if nobody sees them exactly your way. And then start arguing over and over about it to try and prove your point. Same with you King J in response. Its ugly and not christian.

Pancakes you trials are not meaningless. If you love God they are not. Remember He loved you FIRST.

Lanolin Greetings,
And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those n who are the called according to His purpose.

Actually this does not simply just happen. We have to be walking up-rightly before Him and this means operating as and with and by His word. We can not just go about doing or saying anything we desire and expect this scripture to happen in our lives. God does not work like this.

His word is full of promises to us BUT they also REQUIRE from us in order to activate them and see them operate in our lives. That is what His written word is - His will for ALL man kind. He has shown and told us how much He loves us and How much He wants to bless us and then it is up to us. You want His best - then learn to walk in His ways.

OBTW Brother Abdicate is quick to walk away from something that begins to get heated up or he has to say it over and over.
God Bless
Jim

 

[KingJ]

Brother it is this No Fault Religious approach that far too many believers have. When something gets hard or goes wrong it is not my fault for it must be Gods will. It is easier to blame God or better yet pass the buck off to God as God is the great and mighty escape goat then it is to TAKE OWNERSHIP of your own CHOICES and ACTIONS.

Only on the subject of rebellion or submission to Jesus. Otherwise we are to reckon ourselves dead. The life we now live is Christ. Not my will be done, His will be done.

 

[KingJ]

faith does not say well this bad stuff must be Gods will for me

Disagree. That is exactly what faith (in God) does say. Losing faith (in God) in bad times shows a lack of faith (in God).

Substituting our lack of faith in God with faith in our ability to have faith shows God that He needs to relax the trials for us as we are drowning.

 

[Lanolin]

I have not heard this activation of promises. Scripture means what it says, those who LOVE GOD.

All things work together for those who LOVE GOD those who are the called according to his purpose.

Some of my most favorite verses:
Genesis 50:20 But as for you, you meant evil against me; but God meant it for good, in order to bring it about as it is this day, to save many people alive.

1Peter 4:12 Beloved, do not think it strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened to you; 13 but rejoice to the extent that you partake of Christ’s sufferings, that when His glory is revealed, you may also be glad with exceeding joy. 14 If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified. 15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, a thief, an evildoer, or as a busybody in other people’s matters. 16 Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter.

Galatians 6:17 From now on let no one trouble me, for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus.

Romans 8:
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Big moose im sorry but you missed out a whole chunk of verses in your scripture quotation. You cant just cut and paste scripture like that it is very deceiving.
Read the whole chapter especially from verse 28 onwards.

Sheep to the slaughter? You missed that part. You missed a whole heap.