Maybe you need to change your attitude? Besides you missed the whole point to what i said.
meaningless trials
- Thread starter autumn oddity
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Maybe you need to change your attitude? Besides you missed the whole point to what i said.
I have already quoted scripture saying that we will suffer / must endure. You are jumping on those verses out of my context.
As always you are failing at grasping that God loves all His children and hears all their prayers...meaning that whatever we endure is His will.
I know you want to feel like the onus is on you to be more worthy of less suffering. But that is simply a return to the law or an attempt to be your own god.
We have already discussed this at length and you know I disagree with you. I asked you nicely not to abuse Pancakes thread...
If you want a proper debate ...then open a new thread or ...as I said....pm me since debates are not allowed.
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Yes, as their always is on the subject of suffering.Some want you to believe that suffering is your lack of faith in God /some shortcoming your side. Like a good parent will not meet the needs / requests of the nervous, dumb, illiterate, faithless, poor, sick, brain dead, fat, nerdy, pimple faced, insecure, bald, one foot longer then the other, missing eyebrows, skew nose, buck ears.... child first. It is quite a sick take on Christianity. I sure hope they don't treat their kids like they believe God treats us.
That will happen until the day you die. The people in the world and many Christians are not highly intelligent. They can't grasp karma.
I once saw a lady go up to the front of church to sing a song to God from her heart. I was very blessed by her use of her own words and her heart in it. But sadly I had the unfortunate luck of sitting not too far behind the band and lead singer. Hearing them criticize her to death was so sickening. It is always extra shocking when Christians show disrespect. We can understand the worldly doing such. They disrespect any and everyone. We should try to never take it personally.
The point Jim is that.... Christianity 101 is to acknowledge Him in all our ways / give all our problems to Him.
You assume that when we line up with Him = no suffering. You read the lines like ''make straight your path'' as ''no suffering''. As I have already said, God lead those three youngsters to the furnace. Cturtles explanation was just moving the goal posts. As I had already said that God....did.....put the devil on earth...with us. Did God not put the devil on earth?
Brother I have not once said NO suffering but if you would pay closer asttention I said No suffering is Gods will.
Brother what you fail to grasp is we have more to do with what happens in our lives then you admit to. I am totally amazed at how you push this thing that everything we go through is Gods will and when we cast our cares over to Him makes what ever happens His will.
That is so not true.
KJ - say you are lost out in the fields and starving and you find these fruits that look so good but Behold God says dont eat of these fruit they will kill you - but you do it any way...Is this Gods fault ? Did God place these deadly fruits in your path just to make your starving life a worse day?
If Eve and adam would have simply obeyed God sin would not have entered this earth.
So that is Gods fault because it did ? Did He put the tree of life there just to temp them?
Sometimes you make God out to be both good and evil.
Free will is not evil. Evil is giving a creation just beneath the angels no option to choose. We had a voice saying don't eat and a voice saying eat. Both provided by God to bring about free will.
I disagree. It would just have been a matter of time. Jesus was planned before the foundations of the earth because God knew the cross was part and parcel with creating mankind.
God created us in a weak flesh and on an earth with many temptations.
God doesn't take pleasure in seeing us suffer. But He does take pleasure in seeing us remain faithful in our suffering.
Whether it is God, Satan, man, or a combination of all three which stands at the root of suffering is one of the most complex foundations that every individual must face as they grow and mature in faith. It's also equally one of the biggest stumbling blocks both to faith and to its upkeep. The bottom line ends up being that there are Christians who believe in free will and there are Christians that don't. Their views on what / who causes trials and suffering will undoubtedly vary.
Personally I'm a fan of the part of Jeremiah 18 where God talks about the ability of a potter to work with the clay he is using to ensure that it will ultimately become something beautiful. (i.e. I believe that we do have free will.)
As for Pancake: do you have favorite parts of the Bible, ones that give you peace? Going through and thinking on those might help you. Have you ever looked up all of God's promises? That might also be a comfort. Have you been keeping open communication with God via prayer? No time like the present to start--He's always glad to hear from us, and we can hear from Him if we will simply ease our mind and be willing to listen.
The more crazy life is getting, the closer we should be trying to get to God. Sure, He's not always going to snap His fingers and make everything instantly better. But it is said that He will never give us more than we can actually handle (Corinthians 10:13) To be 100% clear this is talking about temptations, but really--isn't that half the battle? If we ask the Lord to clear anything that might be blocking our way as we strive to grow closer to Him, our faith (and the solidity of that faith) is bound to grow. That should result in inner peace which should help with any anxiety that is happening from stuff the world / Satan / whatever is throwing at us.
Take care.
Personally I'm a fan of the part of Jeremiah 18 where God talks about the ability of a potter to work with the clay he is using to ensure that it will ultimately become something beautiful. (i.e. I believe that we do have free will.)
As for Pancake: do you have favorite parts of the Bible, ones that give you peace? Going through and thinking on those might help you. Have you ever looked up all of God's promises? That might also be a comfort. Have you been keeping open communication with God via prayer? No time like the present to start--He's always glad to hear from us, and we can hear from Him if we will simply ease our mind and be willing to listen.
The more crazy life is getting, the closer we should be trying to get to God. Sure, He's not always going to snap His fingers and make everything instantly better. But it is said that He will never give us more than we can actually handle (Corinthians 10:13) To be 100% clear this is talking about temptations, but really--isn't that half the battle? If we ask the Lord to clear anything that might be blocking our way as we strive to grow closer to Him, our faith (and the solidity of that faith) is bound to grow. That should result in inner peace which should help with any anxiety that is happening from stuff the world / Satan / whatever is throwing at us.
Take care.
Yes I saw that happen to, however it was a man pouring his heart out to God and some of the snickers I heard were disgusting..
Yah, the attitude I'm going to adopt is to see everyone and everything from the pastor,apostle,church members as 100% human ...bc they are and not expect so much as decency from them..
As for God, the only things I will maintain faith in is; he is god (&)truth of the resurrection
His promises are nice but like many have said, he doesn't make everything thing happen..
I feel just holding on to those 2 beliefs will help me to be more balanced and less bitter.
Brother the only thing that makes any sense of what you said is this and in truth amazed me since it is total opposite of what you have been saying.
kj said God doesn't take pleasure in seeing us suffer. But He does take pleasure in seeing us remain faithful in our suffering.
So then if God takes no pleasure in seeing us suffer - how can it be His will for us to suffer and how can it be God that sent the suffering ? Which way do you see it bro? Those are things you claim.....
Have a great night
Jim
Glomung
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Wisdom is bought with suffering, no other coin will do.
Think upon those who have never known suffering, what are they like? Do we really need a world full of Paris Hiltons?
It is God's will that we suffer because there is no way to teach other than by experience. Hard lessons require hard methods.
To quote Gandalf Greyhame - "the burnt hand teaches best, then advice about fire goes to the heart".
You probably want to rethink your comment Jim.
I have to disagree Jim. One of the most difficult parts of the Christian life is the fact that becoming a disciple of Christ does not make us immune to life’s trials and tribulations. Why would a good and loving God allow us to go through such things as the death of a child, disease and injury to ourselves and our loved ones, financial hardships, worry and fear? Surely, if He loved us, He would take all these things away from us. After all, doesn’t loving us mean He wants our lives to be easy and comfortable? Well, no, it doesn’t. The Bible clearly teaches that God loves those who are His children, and He “works all things together for good” for us (Romans 8:28). So that must mean that the trials and tribulations He allows in our lives are part of the working together of all things for good. Therefore, for the believer, all trials and tribulations must have a divine purpose.
Trials and tribulations come with both a purpose and a reward.
James 1:2-4
"Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. And let endurance have its perfect result, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing. . . . Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial".
James 1:12
" For once he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life, which the Lord has promised to those who love Him".
Amen!
Although we are in a spiritual battle, Satan has no authority over the believer in Christ. God has given us His Word to guide us, His Holy Spirit to enable us, and the privilege of coming to Him anywhere, at any time, to pray about anything. He has also assured us that no trial will test us beyond our ability to bear it, and “he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it” as seen in 1 Corinthians 10:13.
We can't really say that. God did create the world. God did put the devil with Adam and Eve. God did put the tree in the garden. The question is, is God evil for this? What you are suggesting is understandable as you are trying to exempt God of the evil behind trials and tribulations. You just need to face the fact that He can be behind them and yet not be evil.
Then on peace, the peace of God surpasses all understanding Phil 4:7. Meaning if people see us doing well, peace would not be surpassing their understanding
What 'things' are you suggesting He defeated? That verse says He overcame the world. Overcoming the world = resisting its temptations. Mature / speaking / acting / doing on this subject = sounds right but is in fact adding to scripture. We only overcome the world because we actually do in fact love God. That real relationship we have with God through the Holy Spirit after the cross enables us to have victory over temptations of the world. Like adultery can be easily resisted if we actually love our wife. No ''be mature / speak / act / do X and Y''. That is a return to the law. Unless I am misreading you.
John 16:20-23 Very truly I tell you, you will weep and mourn while the world rejoices. You will grieve, but your grief will turn to joy. 21 A woman giving birth to a child has pain because her time has come; but when her baby is born she forgets the anguish because of her joy that a child is born into the world. 22 So with you: Now is your time of grief, but I will see you again and you will rejoice (heaven), and no one will take away your joy. 23 In that day you will no longer ask me anything (heaven). Very truly I tell you, my Father will give you whatever you ask in my name (ie in heaven).
You see it simply as growing up? When we are mature, no more trials? I see it as God only having 70 years on earth to test us. Not our salvation but rather the depth of our devotion to Him. Kicking and complaining / acting outside of faith would be wanting God to remove the trials He is putting us through. He wants us to grow in trusting in Him despite whatever it is we are going through. The more mature the greater the trial.
Disagree.
And the word is Jesus. If Jesus is not in our hearts we will not overcome the world.
Abundance? Jesus has a foot sticking out the door? I don't believe that is ever the case. Jesus is either in or out of our hearts. We either are or aren't a new creation. We either have love or hate for Jesus.
Good stuff King!
Major I did NOT say we dont have or are immune to them. I said and I say again.......
Walking in the Spirit or another words living as He has told us in His word limits the power of trials over us. This means that we can have Joy and Peace and get through them with out being all worked up and bothered and defeated.
Major lets view what James said.....You quoted 1:2-4 and this is truth and I agree HOWEVER this does NOT in any way say that God sends trials to strengthen us or teach us or perfect patience in us......That is a religious mind set.
When we face a trial according to how Gods words directs us to live and act then YES as James has said they can build endurence and so forth. If a person responds to trials from the flesh or old nature then all thery do is cause problems and strife and pain or take you away from walking with God.
In life ( world ) we will have tribulations and trilas and so forth but in CHRIST we have peace.
We can not escape them. However we can over come them and NOT be over come by them.
Why is it that you feel God is the author of trials from what James said ?
Look ADVERSITY of any kind in a life of any person -saved or not saved - PROVES OR SHOWS what they are made of. This is the testing of Faith James is talking about. People have trials if they are saved or not saved. James is telling us to count it as joy - for in this ( if we walk upright in His ways ) can strengthen us - why ? because we are exercising His word in the situastion which builds faith and patience but if we respond out side of his ways then it shows how little patience we have.
Now then Patience does not mean Putting up with it until it is over as many feel.
No - Patience in a biblicasl sense means being the same today and tomorrow or consistent and constantly the same in Faith not swaying. Be at peace and sure of Gods word at all times.
God does not have to send trials brother - this world brings them for free.
God Bless
Jim