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Matthew 11:20-24

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by GordonSlocum, Aug 31, 2007.

  1. Matthew 11:20-24

    The Unrepenting Cities
    20. Then He began to denounce the cities in which most of His miracles were done, because they did not repent.
    21. "Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles had occurred in Tyre and Sidon which occurred in you, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22. "Nevertheless I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in {the} day of judgment than for you. 23. "And you, Capernaum, will not be exalted to heaven, will you? You will descend to Hades; for if the miracles had occurred in Sodom which occurred in you, it would have remained to this day. 24. "Nevertheless I say to you that it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in {the} day of judgment, than for you."

    The argument that a few are pre-picked for salvation, and all others are not nor can they be saved seems to be in serious trouble in light of the statements in red.
  2. God knows every heart and every decision you and I will ever make- I will leave the numbers up to Him!

  3. Circular Reasoning
    a use of reason in which the premises depends on or is equivalent to the conclusion, a method of false logic by which "this is used to prove that, and that is used to prove this"; also called circular logic
    I would like to have your opinion on the following statement. Is the following statement circular reasoning? Please explain your answer.
    Acts 10:34. And Peter opened his mouth and said: "Truly I perceive that God shows no partiality, 35. but in every nation any one who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.

    I Pet. 1:17. If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay {on earth;}

    “No partiality” i.e. “impartially” is the act of judging correctly. The game is equal for all and the rules apply to all for impartiality to be impartial. If, then, a judge has before him 10 people all equally guilty of the same crime and lets 5 go free and executes the other 5 at his word then you have a judge that is acting with partiality. If however, a test is give to all 10 of which all 10 are fully capable of passing and some decide not to and some do and the ones that do are freed and the ones that did not are executed then you have a judge that is impartial. Also the same is true if all are set free or condemned. There are essentially three options that demonstrate impartially.
  4. Hi GordonSlocum and good morning. I would like to take a chance to reinterate my position a little more clearly-
    As a christian my righteousness a is found in Christ and Christ alone
    Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
    Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
    Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
    Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
    Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
    Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
    Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

    As a christian I am totaly dependant on His mercy
    Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

    As a simple Word man and in the interst of brievity I will stop here- I had two pages of scripture and doctrinal discussion but I will simply condense it to a few statements

    2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
    God wills all to be saved and payed the price for all-

    Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
    Not all choose God and not all will be saved

    Rom 8:29 For3754 whom3739 he did foreknow,4267 he also2532 did predestinate4309tobe conformed to4832 the3588 image1504 of his848 Son,5207 that he846 might be1511 the firstborn4416 among1722 many4183 brethren.80
    Rom 8:30 Moreover1161 whom3739 he did predestinate,4309 them5128 he also2532 called:2564 and2532 whom3739 he called,2564 them5128 he also2532 justified:1344 and1161 whom3739 he justified,1344 them5128 he also2532 glorified.1392Those He did foreknow
    From G4253 and G1097; to know beforehand, that is, foresee: - foreknow (ordain), know (before).

    He also did predestinate
    From G4253 and G3724; to limit in advance, that is, (figuratively) predetermine: - determine before, ordain, predestinate.

    to be conformed to
    From G4862 and G3444; jointly formed, that is, (figuratively) similar: - conformed to, fashioned like unto.

    the image of His Son
    From G1503; a likeness, that is, (literally) statue, profile, or (figuratively) representation, resemblance: - image.

    The Father knew me before I was even born Jer 1:5 and being a God who knows the beggining from the end saw all my choices, it was no surprise to Him when I was drawn to His Son's sacrifice and was brought into relationship with Him as a son. It is an easy thing for me to look back in my life and see how this great God has planned, positioned and used all the circumstances in my life that brought me to a saving knowledge of His Son- I stand on my opinion that God will not miss one heart that will have Him and that He will move heaven and earth to put that person in a position to receive His salvation because as we have already seen it is His will and desire to see all men saved- in His Name and with His love- your brother Larry
  5. Hi, Larry

    I have been of the conviction that anyone, regardless of where and when, that responds to the light they have that God will do as you suggested "move heaven and earth put that person in a position to receive" Christ.

    With respect to the words impartial and partial, I see the position where God picks some and will not picks others as partial.

  6. It may be just me but I read it as based on those who would have Him and those who ultimately don't want Him- that is not partiality but clear vision. If we aren't on the same page with this it is ok- as a parent I can testify brothers don't always see eye to eye on everything. I appreciate your heart and pray God's blessing on your life- Larry:D
  7. Just an after thought- I was talking to a friend at work who was having a hard time understanding why God would create anyone who ultimately go to hell. I was praying about this on the ride home when I had (a vision?) of God , He was reaching out constantly and gathering all who would come to His chest- I came away from this expierience touched by the love and care He showed each and everyone He gathered- constantlly looking and moving-
    Youu can of course make anything you want of this but I just wanted to share my expierience- blessings- brother Larry
  8. I have to apologize, I am not the best communicator:

    I will try again,

    The Scripture tells us that God is impartial.

    What does that mean?


    10 people in the world

    All ten are sinners and bound for hell.

    All ten will not turn to God

    which is true:

    1. God is impartial if he sends all to hell.

    2. God is impartial if he saves all

    3. God is impartial is he provides a "test" and all who pass go to heaven and all who don't go to hell, all things are equal.

    4. God sends 5 to hell and 5 to heaven.

    I see number 4 as God being a respecter of person and I see the first three as God not being a respecter of persons.

    In other words, 1,2,and 3 show that God is not a respecter of persons, but number 4 does.

    Reform Theology, Calvinism, or followers of the TULIP see 4 as God being impartial or not a respecter of persons, I disagree with that position because it is a contradiction of Holiness and the character of God. RT and the rest, in my humble opinion, turn the tables and make what is wrong, right by twisting the meaning of "no respecter of persons".

    Perhaps that clears up what I am trying to express.

    To Go Be The Glory
  9. If I may add this, God loves each of those ten and sacrificed equally for each one. It would never benefit me to have $10,000,000 in the bank and never write a check or make a withdrawal- in fact I could starve to death if I never took advantage of available resources.
    Another thing I have found- some people want nothing at all to do with God- these are the ones who usually yell the loudest about not believing in Him- if they really didn't believe they wouldn't have such a strong of a reaction to the mention of His Name. Some would rather serve evil beacuse their hearts are evil- some would rather have the riches of this world than a future with God- and a some just don't want to be bothered- a man cannot come to terms with or meet the Living God without change occuring in thier lives- these are the types of people who will find themselves just where they wanted to be- isolated from God's love-
    The ones who will come- nothing is stronger than God's redeeming love and I have seen Him pull more than one set of feet out of the fire -at the very last breath I have seen some finally come to Him and guess what- He was there to meet them. So indeed God is not a respector of persons but allows each of us to choose Him or reject Him and honors that decision accordingly.
    I am still not sure if we are driving at the same point but I love you as a brother either way- blessings on your home- brother Larry
  10. Thanks Larry,

    Basically, what I was hoping was that a number of people would look at the 4 points and in a simple way state if they agree or disagree. I think you agree with my position, but not completely sure, based on what you have said.

    I do not believe in total inability, depravity, as the Calvinist, RT, and TULIP believers do.

    Because He Lives,

  11. who is potter over clay... romans 9

  12. if God wants something He has the power to do it , He knows how we will react to every possible message

    matt 11:23 .... If the miracles had occured ..... they would have been saved

    not all are chosen

    this is grace ... God choice ..romans 9
  13. it would seem as these lumps of clay may influence their useage:
    2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
    2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
  14. Hey Gordon, you sure do get around buddy!

    Consider me another non-calvinist ally;)
  15. another person who disagrees with romans 9

    I am not a calvinist
  16. :DDoes that then make you one who disagrees with Romans 11 ;)
  17. Thanks MrJim
  18. what your point? is it not part of the bible....

  19. Let me ask you to do something for all of us:

    In a clear, concise simple outline tell all of us what you believe. Please don't quote endless verses, just state in your own words what you believe. I for one am having a very difficult time understanding what you are saying because of the way you post. Perhaps it is just me, if so, I do hope you will outline specifically what you believe. Please be concise and brief.


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