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Matt 24:12-13 agape love

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by ATP, Oct 11, 2015.

  1. Since agape love only applies to believers, then what are we being saved from. Does wax cold mean to quench. Are we being saved from war. - ATP
  2. #2 Complete, Oct 11, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2015
    'And because iniquity shall abound,
    the love of many shall wax cold.
    But he that shall endure unto the end,
    the same shall be saved.'

    (Mat 24:12,13)

    Hi @ATP,

    'These words were spoken as part of our Lord's response to the questions asked of Him, by His disciples, in Matthew 24:3:-

    'And as He sat upon the mount of Olives,
    the disciples came unto Him privately, saying,
    "Tell us,

    1) - when shall these things be?
    2) - and what shall be the sign of Thy coming,
    3) - and (what ... ) of the end of the world?"'

    He answers the questions in reverse order:-
    3) - Matthew 24:4-6
    2) - Matthew 24:7-28
    1) - Matthew 24:29-25:26

    * So, this response is to the 2nd question, 'What shall be the sign of Thy coming?' (Matthew 24:7-28)

    'For nation shall rise against nation,
    and kingdom against kingdom:
    and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
    All these are the beginning of sorrows.
    (Jer. 30:7)
    Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you:
    and ye shall be hated of all nations for My name's sake.

    And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
    And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

    And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
    But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

    And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations;
    and then shall the end come.

    - When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation,
    spoken of by Daniel the prophet, (
    Daniel 11:31; 12:11)
    stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

    Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
    Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
    Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

    And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
    But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
    For then shall be great tribulation,
    such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
    And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved:
    but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

    Then if any man shall say unto you,
    "Lo, here is Christ, or there;" believe it not.
    For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders;
    insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
    Behold, I have told you before.-
    Wherefore if they shall say unto you,
    "Behold, he is in the desert"; go not forth:
    "behold, he is in the secret chambers"; believe it not.

    For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west;
    so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
    For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.'


    Matthew 24:12,13, that you enquire of, must be kept within it's context, and understood in the light of it.
    These are all signs of His coming.

    * Because they will be delivered up to be afflicted, hated of all nations and killed for His Name sake,
    there are those who will lose their love for Him, and will become cold (Rev 13:12; Rev 13:15; Rev 14:9; Rev 14:11) . Yet those who endure will be saved (or 'delivered') from the wrath to come (1 Thess. 1:10).

    In Christ Jesus

  3. Does that mean they lose their salvation also?
  4. Hello @ATP

    Salvation is not the issue here.

    Salvation by grace, once given, is never rescinded.

    In Christ Jesus
    Euphemia likes this.
  5. What are they being saved from then in Matt 24:13?
  6. (1Thess 1:10)

    'And to wait for His Son from heaven,
    whom He raised from the dead,
    even Jesus,
    which delivered us from the wrath to come.'

    Hello @ATP,
    This is a good verse to quote in reply to your question, (quote) 'What are they being saved from then in Matt. 24:13?', for if Israel had come to repentance at that time (during the period covered by the book of Acts) then the people to whom the epistle to the Thessalonians was written, would have been those experiencing what is written in Matthew 24. They were looking for His appearing, as being an imminent thing.

    If you remember, ATP, in Roman's chapter one, Paul speaks of the gospel, or the good news of salvation, which includes the imputation to the sinner of a righteousness from God, which was not of works, but of faith, by grace; and says,

    ' ... For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven
    against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men,
    who hold the truth in unrighteousness; .... '

    (Romans 1:18-23)

    So the gospel message if it is to be effective, must include the warning of the wrath of God also, for that is what what we, who have entered the obedience of faith, are saved from:-

    '... Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world,
    according to the prince of the power of the air,
    the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:'


    ' ... Let no man deceive you with vain words:
    for because of these things
    cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. '


    ' ... For which things' sake
    the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:'


    How grateful and full of praise we should be, to have been so wonderfully delivered, by God's grace.

    Thank you, ATP,
    In Christ Jesus
    JG27_chili likes this.
  7. So the believers who aren't enduring to the end experience the wrath of God? The agape love in Matt 24:12?
  8. The first church did not lose its first love it LEFT it.
    wax cold then as a fire . that is not refueled .
    An example might be seen with David when " he saw the prosperity of the wicked " and acted like a beast ("without understanding") towards God ."
    So because evil multiplies and the wicked prosper and "vile men are exalted" and the wicked are in places of authority and righteous judgment is but a distant memory .Many of Gods people love will wax cold.
    Because they do not refuel themselves by doing as David did go into the presence of God and "see their end"
    We need to be in the presence of God oft and pray oft and walk close with the Lord . We have got to come to know "Him who is from the beginning " and while we cannot deny the reality of this world nor should not even try to do so by singing hymns louder as it were .
    We should remember the two faithful witnesses /spies who saw the same things as the 10 faithless ones .
    But where as the 10 faithless spies saw only what they saw with the eyes of man or by sight . The two faithful spies saw the same things in the true light of what God HAD done in the last 40 DAYS who it was whop was with them and what He had promised for the future . and in the true light of God saw the same things in their true perspective and acted and spoke accordingly.

    We are not saved from tribulation and we should not think it strange when we are tempted and have to face the animosity of this world .
    if we are ready we will however not be here when the Anti Christ is manifested . and the great tribulation is unleashed upon the earth . Even as Enoch was translated .so too the Bride .
    If we are not found ready then we will like Noah be saved THROUGH flood of Gods rigteous indignation poured out upon the world.

    The unsaved "do all ways resist the Holy Ghost"
    The saved are told not to quench (as in a fire) or grieve (offend) the Holy Ghost .
    But to be always led by Him and allow Him to correct ,reprove and instruct us as our faith is perfected and our knowledge of God increases as we are so.
    In and through Primarily the ministers of God given to the church (Eph) then by our own studies and prayerful meditation of Gods word.
    "It is by practice we learn good from evil " By Him who si the Spirit of truth by whom we know the spirit of error .
    If its by practice then we do not always get it right . But a righteous man will when he falls get up again .
    A boxing champion is not one who never falls .But one who gets up and continues every time he does so. and wins the battle .

    in Christ
    Mykuhl likes this.
  9. Maybe the OP scripture is speaking about believing Jews being saved from the destruction of Jerusalem. - ATP
  10. Believing Jews are Christians which make them part of the Bride of Christ which is the church. Therefore as a part of the church they would be Raptured as well as all the other believers who make up the Church.

    Does that help you???
  11. Hi there, @ATP,

    This has nothing to do with salvation, as we know it.

    Remember, that the gospel whereby you and I were saved, had not been given when the prophecy of Matthew 24:12 was spoken by our Lord. The preaching of the Lord Jesus Christ concerned the Kingdom.

    'From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say,
    "Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."'

    (Mat 4:17)

    The restitution of the kingdom to Israel was the hope in view, and the reign of the Messiah. As it was later, after 40 days of teaching by the risen Christ, before His ascension, when He taught them concerning the kingdom. The question asked by His disciples was,

    ' ... Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?'
    (Act 1:6)

    *This was their expectation, and their hope.

    It was not until the end of the Acts period that the hope of a 'redeemed' Israel, was laid aside temporarily, because of their unbelief. By then gentiles had been grafted into the Olive tree of Israel, to make Israel jealous, and to make them desire to emulate them. Romans, Galatians, 1 & 2 Corinthians, 1& 2 Thessalonians and the book of Hebrews had been written by Paul.

    It was following Israel's laying aside in unbelief that the Church of today was introduced, by God, through Paul, in the epistles written from prison. Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1&2 Timothy and Titus. This is the gospel for today, built on the foundational truth of the epistle to the Romans. It concerns the Church which is His Body the fulness of Him that filleth all in all, of which He is the Head. Yet, this is the one gospel which goes unheeded, because the Word of God is not rightly-divided. The Truth made known in these later epistles of Paul is hidden among Truths (though precious) which belong to a previous dispensation.

    This has gone far beyond what your question asked.
    Forgive me, ATP, but this is where I stop,
    I cannot mingle what God has divided.

    In Christ Jesus
  12. The Olivet Discourse in Matt 24 is about Israel in the tribulation. It has nothing to do with the church.
  13. That is true. However, your original question was.....
    "Maybe the OP scripture is speaking about believing Jews being saved from the destruction of Jerusalem."

    Believing Jews will be Christians and therefore be a part of the Rapture.
    Euphemia likes this.
  14. Excellent answer my sister!
  15. Where is rapture in Matt 24?
  16. The gospel was first preached in the garden of Eden. and Abel was the first recorded man who was saved by it .

    in Christ
  17. If you don't believe in the rapture then you have to believe Matt 24 is to us too.

    I don't mind either. I do believe we will all suffer in these last days. Just not God's wrath. I don't believe any Jew who converts in the tribulation will either.

    Rev 16:2 The first angel went and poured out his bowl on the land, and ugly, festering sores broke out on the people who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image.

    I am just curious as to what you believes the ''gospel of the kingdom'' that will be preached to the whole world is if Matt 24 is only to the Jews vs 14 ''And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.''
    Complete likes this.
  18. I believe in the rapture, but I'm going to be reading a book on the Olivet soon. It's complex.
  19. #19 ATP, Oct 15, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2015
    Does Matt. 24:29 Equal Rev. 6:12?

    “Immediately after the distress of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken” (Matt. 24:29) Jesus was quoting Isaiah 13:10 where the context is the after effects of the day of the Lord. I watched as he opened the sixth seal.

    There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind (Rev. 6:12-13) John was quoting Joel 2:31 where the context is a sign that the day of the Lord is coming.

    The two verses are similar but not the same. Matt. 24:29 shows one of the results of the day of the Lord. Rev. 6:12-13 describes a warning that precedes the day of the Lord. Later on in the book of Revelation the sun is so hot it burns people (Rev. 16:8-9) but when the sun goes out in Matt. 24:29 it will never come back (Rev. 21:23-24). The two verses do not describe the same thing. Therefore there is no justification for saying Rev. 6:12-13 is describing the end of the Great Tribulation.
  20. I believe the rapture takes place after the sixth seal is open Rev 6:12-14 and before God's wrath is poured out Rev 6:15-17, Rev 8:1. The raptured saints and first resurrection can be found in Rev 7:9-17.

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