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Mary, Mother Of The Lamb(flesh) Of God, Not Mother Of God

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Brother David, Jan 25, 2014.

  1. I agree with many people on this forums board about the importance of Mary. although with that being said she was not deity, and she is not to be worshipped.
    She is NOT the mother of God, this is a dangerous and very confusing doctrine that was born from men.
    Mary being the mother of Jesus- and Jesus is God, so she must be the mother of God right ? Wrong....
    Jesus as the Son was God and man.... He had a heavenly Father who is eternal from everlasting to everlasting, without beginning or end. He also had an earthly mother(Mary) that was chosen by God to be a vessel to birth the Messiah......
    Luke 1:35
    King James Version (KJV)
    35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
     
  2. I fail to see that Mary was even important, other than the obvious. What's more important was that she was a sinner who knew that she needed to believe in Christ just like us.
     
  3. you are correct, Mary was NOT deity nor should be worshiped ..
    but she was most assuredly the mother of Jesus, who was God ..
    indeed His genealogy through her did NOT give Him beginning of days, but nonetheless Mary birthed Jesus/God ..

    Emanuel means GOD WITH US ..

    as to Mary's non-deity .. that is expressed here ..

    Luk 1:47 And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.

    as ALL mankind (not deity) needed redemption .. I think anyone who has some understanding of the God head (which includes Catholics) understands Jesus existed before He was birthed LIKE A SON OF MAN (not an actual son of man) ..
     
  4. then you fail to see what a mother son relation is ..
    and IF the son is "the Son of God" .. that woman was loved by that Son ..
    I think many not trying to be heretical, try to downplay her importance ..
    she downplayed her own importance, but even Jesus the Son of God obeyed her ..
     
  5. Not sure how you inferred that from what I said, but if you say so.
     
  6. #6 ixoye_8, Jan 25, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2014
    do you understand why scripture refers to Jesus "like a son of man" ???
    because Lamb does not equal flesh .. lamb = sacrifice ..
    and Jesus was an "unblemished lamb" ..
    hence not a true man because He was not born under the curse of spiritual death in which God cursed Adam and Eve with, which separates mankind and God .. if Jesus was, then He would have been a blemished lamb .. that is WHY Jesus could NOT have an earthly Father, and have the HS just "overshadow" that kind of union ..

    Luk 1:34 Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I am a virgin?”
    Luk 1:35 The angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.

    personally, I can't think of any human besides Mary who ever gave birth as a virgin .. nor anyone else that gave birth to God ..
    was she special ??? .. indeed ..
     
  7. I'm tracking that, thanks.

    But what made Jesus unblemished was because of the Holy Spirit's involvement, not Mary's. God could have chosen any other woman and the results would have been the same. Mary was an obedient servant of God. That's where it ends.
     
  8. you're welcome ..
    what made Jesus "unblemished" is He, unlike mankind was not under the curse ..
    indeed he was flesh, but with only one set of human genes ..
    he was true flesh, but not true human ..

    indeed God favored Mary .. and He could have favored another ..
    but my original point to you, is to think Jesus does not honor Mary as a parent ALSO is an empty assumption in my opinion .. as I said, scripture bears wittiness that He obeyed her .. in the latter, she actually (through faith) knew He would obey her ..

    Luk 2:51
    And He went down with them and came to Nazareth, and He continued in subjection to them; and His mother treasured all these things in her heart.

    Jhn 2:4
    And Jesus said to her, “Woman, what does that have to do with us? My hour has not yet come.”
    Jhn 2:5
    His mother said to the servants, “Whatever He says to you, do it.”

    as you see in Luk 1:35, God is supplying the "reason" ..

    Luk 1:35 The angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason G1352 the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.
    Mat 27:8 For this reason G1352 that field has been called the Field of Blood to this day.
     
  9. Yeah, I'm tracking all that too, thanks.

    Unfortunately, I never claimed that Jesus did not honor His mother. If you inferred that, that's on you.
     
  10. no .. I'm just bringing these things out for the readers .. please don't assume I read anything other then what you wrote ..

    what is weird, is Mary was first a child of God then .. hmmm .. surrogate mother "to/of" God .. so technically she was, and was not the "mother of God" ..
    yet Jesus experiencing humanity would also experience a Son-Mother bond ..
    and that does not die ..
     
  11. #11 ixoye_8, Jan 25, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2014
    the one set of human genes causes geneticist to stammer ..
    but that is only because they are restricted by the laws of physics ..

    meaning with only Mary's genes, Jesus would basically be a clone of Mary ..
    a female, and look identical to her ..
    so God obviously had to add genes to hers upon conception ..
     
  12. #12 LysanderShapiro, Jan 25, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2014
    The Father is God. Christ is God in the flesh. Christ is not the Father, but He is still God. Mary is the mother of Christ, and because Christ is God, this means Mary is the mother of God.

    This isn't to be confused with saying she is a deity or to be worshiped. Christ was born free of original sin, so it was fitting that he was be born of a woman free of original sin -- as was God's plan.

    I'm sure I will be getting multiple replies for sharing this, but it's still true. Mary, while she is not on an equal level to Christ, is still an extremely important figure in Christianity ans always has been. It wasn't until much later than people have decided to make horrible, insulting claims about Our Lady, saying she was only an "incubator" for Jesus, or that Jesus was putting His own mother down when he called her "woman."

    I almost never have to worry about my fellow Christians saying anything bad about Jesus as we're often on the same page, but I find it incredibly insulting when they dismiss her as only an "incubator" for Jesus, as if to only call your own mom an "incubator" for yourself.

    Mary has been put in a corner and only comes out in December for many Christians because of their concern with the way Catholics and Orthodox Christians venerate her. They believe she is given too much reverence and displaces Jesus. So instead of adding it, they have responded almost as if they're embarrassed to be seen with her, like a kid embarrassed to be seen with his mom.

    If Catholics and Orthodox Christians have gone to an extreme (which I don't believe they have, but let's say for argument's sake they have), then those who dismiss Mary as nothing special have gone to the other extreme.
     
  13. First off I believe Mary was the mother of God (not the progenitor of the eternal Deity who Himself has no mother) but the logic of this statement does not follow...

    Christ was born free of original sin, so it was fitting that he was be born of a woman free of original sin

    For if this is true, then it is fitting that she also was born of a woman free from original sin and ad nauseum ad infinitum...it is not essential that she was born free from original sin because the effect of original sin (death) is inherited through Adam (the males), and also because God does not hold the sins of the fathers against the children (Adam being one of our fathers) we though corrupted for all generations are not condemned for Adam's sin....the soul that sins IT must die and we all sin very early on.

    But I 100% agree with this statement "If Catholics and Orthodox Christians have gone to an extreme (which I don't believe they have, but let's say for argument's sake they have), then those who dismiss Mary as nothing special have gone to the other extreme." To disregard the importance of her role, and as the finest example we could emulate of humility and obedience, to dismiss this one chosen out of all other possible women is sad to me. I have so many questions I hope to ask her one day.

    brother Paul
     
  14. I hate to say this but the fact is I'm new but I'm gonna be blunt and to the point. Mary was Jesus' earthly mother. If I have to explain what that means, then we are in serious trouble. Lol
     
  15. Thank you for responding, Brother Paul.

    How do you figure it is fitting she is born of a woman free from original sin? She was not God in flesh, nor the redeemer of man. Though she was the mother of such.

    Christ came as the new Adam, where Adam had failed, Christ would fulfill. Would Mary not be the new Eve? Genesis 3:14-15 is a fascinating passage as it brings reference the seed of the Woman.
     
  16. Indeed, she is.
     
  17. Christ came as the new Adam, where Adam had failed, Christ would fulfill. Would Mary not be the new Eve? Genesis 3:14-15is a fascinating passage as it brings reference the seed of the Woman.

    Eve was Adam's wife, was Mary Jesus wife? No! Now there is a sense in which she is, because like you and I, she is the bride of Christ. Now she is the Eve (speaking figuratively as a mother and that woman) who brought forth THE seed that bruises the head of the devil, but she is nowhere by Christ or any Apostle referred to as "the new or last Eve"....again I understand the parallels figuratively made by the early fathers but these are not literal. It is like if I said through a tree all men died and through a tree all men live...I know it was not literally a tree (with roots and branches) upon which He hung. So in a sense we can figuratively compare her to the actual Eve and say (like the tree) she served the exact opposite function, but she is not literally "the new Eve" or she would have to be the wife of Christ before He fulfilled His purpose (by which one can be the bride).

    In His love

    brother Paul
     
  18. With all due respect, because Mary was not the wife of Jesus, this isn't sound criteria to say she wasn't. If Jesus was the new Adam, but we're going off of the model of marital vocation, than either Jesus had to be married or Jesus was not the new Adam. Of course Jesus wasn't married and He was indeed the new Adam, so the criteria falls apart.

    I do appreciate though that you see the argument in it. Mary's obedience to God helped to bring fruition the salvation of man. Christ loved and obeyed His mother, and her place was never take Jesus' place and be worshiped, but to direct those to her Son--just like she did at the wedding at Cana.
     
  19. While it can be noted that Mary had found favor with God (Luke 1:26-30), it was because the Lord was with her (Luke 1:28). It should also be remembered that Mary was just like any of us who are in the kingdom: a human being obeying God and being used by God, according to God's timing, leadership and power.

    Christ said this: "46 While He was still speaking to the crowds, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him.47 Someone said to Him, “Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You.”[a]48 But [b]Jesus answered the one who was telling Him and said, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?”49 And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, “Behold My mother and My brothers!50 For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother.Matthew 12:46-50

    Throughout the old Testament Israel was always being seduced by foreign gods. That was always one of God's chief charges against them - they were always straying in this way. Today that same tactic is used by the enemy - distracting Christians from the One on whom the ENTIRE new covenant (and the old for that matter!) rests: Jesus Christ! Giving Mary a place of divinity is just another way of trying to distract believers from the whole point of the new life: I say it again - Christ!
     
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  20. Mary was a willing vessel to carry the Son of God..........
    Mary DID NOT give birth to the God that was IN Christ...Nobody gave birth to God.
    Jesus had a dual nature: Earthly = son of man and Heavenly or Divine= Son of God. Mary gave birth to the human body of Jesus.
    As man Jesus was born, He hungered, He wept, and He died.
    As God Jesus forgave sins, opened blinded eyes, cause the lame to walk, turned water to wine, cast out demons, He rose again.
    Let's clairify when the NAME of Jesus is used are you speaking about when He was a man in His earthly ministry or now, or even before the incarnation.
    Mary could NOT have given birth to our eternal God......Where did the Jews mention this ? She did NOT give birth to Jehovah, the God of Issac, Jacob, and Abraham.
    John 4:24
    King James Version (KJV)
    24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.


     

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