Mary, Mother of Jesus?

Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by TrueChristian1990, Nov 15, 2015.

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  1. What is a good Christian to think of Mary, Christ's mother?
    As you all probably know the Catholics believe she is sinless, and can directly interecede on our behalf to Christ, similar to the way a pastor can pray or "intercede" on behalf of a Christian today.

    Some of their teachings can be a bit.... hard to swallow, but at the same time I understand their view of Mary... somewhat.

    I get why they think she is distinct among all mortal humans. It was she after all whom God chose to bear his son into the world. The Angel Gabriel visited her and proclaimed to her "Hail,full of Grace", much like the beginning of the Catholic "Hail Mary prayer."

    Mary, since she had free will, could have refused God. But being humble and pious (and in spite of the great risks of out of wedlock pregnancy" she gave a resounding "YES!" to the Lord's plan for her.

    Mary had Jesus (Perfectly God and human) growing inside her for 9 months. Wouldn't it stand to reason that she was a unique vessel of some sort, for bearing the Lord in?

    From depictions of her in art, and in scripture, she seems like such a kind, lovely and gentle soul.

    I just wonder how a "True Christian" should view her?
  2. I read this and for myself I don't want to have an agenda but look to Jesus agenda, what does Jesus want for my mind to think and to do to honor and love all the people in the world. Mary, Jesus mother, looked to Jesus, she knew who He was, (the wedding celebration, where God changed His mind and Jesus turned water into wine, lol) Awesome question, very deep. I will think on this some more
  3. Mary was the mother of His flesh . She was not nor ever can be the mother of God . For God has no mother nor was any before God .
    The paradox of how can a sinner give birth to a sinless Christ is in no way resolved by denying all of scripture and in paricular the one that says "all have sinned ......"
    But first I will give you another paradox . When Jesus was told that his mother and brothers after the flesh was outside desiring to speak to him . He replied by denying his mother and brothers after the flesh and in effect said his true mother and brothers were "they that did the will of God"
    It is easier to understand how a person can be a brother of the Lord on the most simple understanding that we have the same Father ;"Our father ......."
    But how then can I be his true mother?
    She is not distinct among all man kind she was blessed among all women . Quite different .
    To assert that she was born sinless denies the scripture that she was born in sin and shapen in iniquity as every body else .
    as it also denies the scripture that shows she was born of Adams seed as all others .
    The blood of the child is determined by the father not the mother and the blood of the child is kept seperate from the mothers.
    That alone means that the life of the mother had nothing to do with the life of the child. For "the life is in the blood."
    As he was not of Adams seed and bloodline he was not then born in sin .
    His blood then was of His father. Whos is God.
    The blood of Jesus Christ then had the life of God in it and thus eternal life .
    When it was shed and offered for sin .It was then an eternal ONCE and for all offering for sin.
    and truly "the blood of the Lamb that taketh away the sin of the world ."
    Whatever others may say of Mary outside of scripture Mary herself confessed the need of a saviour .If she was born without sin then she had no need of one .
    The other claim that she remained a virgin also is contray to scripture that clearly says the Lord had other brothers or half brothers .For she would not either have "robbed" joseph nor would have had any other children and remained a virgin.
    In truth the paganisation of Mary is of man and of Babylon the "queen of heaven" also denounced by scripture.
    and the absurd idea that we need to go to Mary to intercede for us to asauage the wrath of God as a mother might of an enraged father . is abhorrent .
    That God has no self control and Jesus is tied to his mothers apron strings .
    When as with Peter God in his wisdom showed that Mary had no authroity over Jesus at all as His mother from the moment of his baptism.
    and if a pastor or another brother or sister may intercede on behalf of another .It is as it should be "bearign one anothers burdens"
    But the idea that we need Mary to intercede in the way suggested is equaly false and is gorunds for a lot of mischeif by the devil when we understand that not only can we all through Jesus Christ " and the blood that speaks better things than the blood of Abels" coem to the throne fo grace with boldness fro grace and mercy in time of need .
    But that the Lord Jesus Christ beign our high priest "maketh EVER intercession for us.........."
    The fruits of such errors as the church in rome teaches is the worship of idols and a mary that is so unliek the Mary of scripture God protected her from such culminy by the Words of the lord to her as also by scripture.

    in Christ
    Fish Catcher Jim likes this.
  4. There are great commandments of God about "graven images" for such images are false and speak not the truth . and put false images in the imagination that then blind the mind to the truth .
    The immaculate conception liek every other immaculate conception dreamed up by man always dazzles the imagination and in doing so blinds the mind to the truth .
    All the women in Israel knew of the promise of God to man in the garden of Eden.
    Of a woman who would bear a male child born of a woman but not of Adams seed who would be the deliverer of mankind from the serpent.
    Not only all the women of Israel but also the women of the tribe of Benjemin in particular .For it would not be born of any woman from any tribe .But from one tribe .
    and Mary was of that tribe. So all the woman "who had not known a man" would wonder if they would be the one and had thought so for 2000 years (?)
    Or ever since it was promised in isiah .
    Visions and revelations men have but not all are of God . Some out of the imaginations of men at best and at worst from the devil.
    When she asked "how can these thinsg be seeign that I knwo not a man" She believed but wanted to make sure it was of God.
    For she knew that the child born of a virgin would not be of Adams seed .
    When she got the reply she then was willing .
    Peter made sure it was the Lord FIRST before he got out of the boat.
    Gidion made sure it was the Lord before he went forward also .
    The teachings are hard to swallow because the Spirit of truth say NAY!

    in Christ
  5. If you want to know the Catholic view of St. Mary you should go to Catholic sources to read the doctrine for yourself.
    Most of the views you will see posted here are from Evangelicals or Fundamentalists who have their own agendas to push.
    If you are REALLY adventurous you might wish to read up on Marian Apparitions and what she has had to say about herself.
  6. Here's what Martin Luther (the Protestant Reformer) had to say about Mary
    "... so that while the soul was being infused, she would at the same time be cleansed from original sin ... And thus, in the very moment in which she began to live, she was without all sin." (Martin Luther's Works, vol 4, pg 694)

    "God has formed the soul and body of the Virgin Mary full of the Holy Spirit, so that she is without all sins, " (ibid. vol 52, pg 39)

    ". . . she is full of grace, proclaimed to be entirely without sin. . . . God's grace fills her with everything good and makes her devoid of all evil. . . . God is with her, meaning that all she did or left undone is divine and the action of God in her. Moreover, God guarded and protected her from all that might be hurtful to her." (Ref: Luther's Works, American edition, vol. 43, p. 40, ed. H. Lehmann, Fortress, 1968)
  7. That is a very lopsided view of things . For if there is any agenda it is that the truth as it si in scripture rather in the minds of men be upheld.
    In the things of men one might argue (but it is not always so) every man is entitled to his own opinion. But that is not to say even then that every opinion is or should be taken as of equal merit.
    But in the things of God are you really saying that a mans opinion or view is important or should outweigh the truth?
    In the things of God what men needs is the truth .Not an opinion or 'point of view'
    For while in the things of men a mistake can have limited consequences most of the time.
    But get it wrong in the things of God and the consequences are eternal.
    You also imply but do not say it that there are no funadementals in religion or anything else coem to that . That is an absurd inference.
    For in matters of God Paul lays out the fundamentals of the Gospel and they are all "according to the scriptures"
    and not according to the traditions of men .
    So if any man REALY wants to be adventureous in God they should actually go to the scriptures and search them .

    in nChrist
    Major, Fish Catcher Jim and Klub says Amen and like this.
  8. Marry was just a woman who was obedient to God, much like any other notable person in the bible. She sinned like every other man, and she needed salvation.

    As for evangelicals and reformers having their own agend, Our agenda is only that of God, to make disciples and share the good news of Christ.
    Major, Ravindran, Fish Catcher Jim and 2 others say Amen and like this.
  9. I'd say what you believe about Mary is how you should live your example of true Christianity.

    The scriptures tell us who Mary was. After that it appears up to us as to what we give her in matters of position and respect in the parables themselves.

  10. Having him look into it for himself and decide for himself is lopsided? I would hate to see your notion of independent.
    I do not support Sola Scriptura (neither does Scripture) so your arguments are invalid.
    All that you state is "your opinion and your point of view" so again , argument invalid.
  11. Sola scripture was in response to the claims of the church of Rome that her 'traditions ; carried equal weight as to doctrine than scripture.
    Your idea that it is not held up in scripture is mistaken. For is it not written ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God and is given for correction reproof ands instruction in righteousness?
    Furnishing evry man of God ..?
    and by what pray will you correct and reprove any man save scripture?
    For man left to his own devises will does and always has revert to type for within himself he has no compass.
    But in context scripture while alone is the ONLY foundation for "sound doctrine" and therefore for faith.
    For faith in God comes by hearing and understanding the Word of God .
    Which is why false doctrines not in naccordance with scripture leads men AWAY from God and puts mens faith in soemthing other than God .
    Yet there is the Word of God which is the BODY of truth.
    Then there is the SPIRIT of truth .
    and you need BOTH .
    For by the Spirit of truth " we know the spirit of error "

    Thus even as we are BORN again by the WORD of God and the Spirit of God .
    So" shall man not live by bread alone but by every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God"
    For a mans words can neither be heard or understood unless he gives his life or breath to his words.
    How much then the more can we not hear and understand Gods words unless His Spirit gives life to the letter .So that the Word and the Spirit are one with the one who speaketh .
    What then ; will we or should we accept in stead the words and traditions of men who claim so many errors and are are infallibile in them.?
    Or shoudl we believe the word of God?

    in Christ
    Fish Catcher Jim and Cturtle say Amen and like this.
  12. Then you're in league with the Jews who too do not believe in sola scriptura. They honestly believe that man dictates what goes on here on earth and man's decision override God's word. But God's word, believe it or not says otherwise, Pro 21:2. I'll stick to the scriptures over whatever man says. But is that all there is? No, once you have the Creator in you, you learn more and more than what's written on paper and we release what's written on our hearts for His glory when we're obedient to His guidance.
    Cturtle, Klub and 5Wolves says Amen and like this.
  13. The moment we throw out sola scriptura is the same moment we put our ways in front of God and His Word. We would become the same as the Jehovah's Witness or the lds church, if we do not believe in sola scriptura, then we open ourselves up to the fallible doctrine of man
    Cturtle likes this.
  14. It would be more accurate to say that "you will believe what you believe regardless of what scripture says".
  15. I say what I mean, and mean what I say. Please don't twist my words or speak for me. Thanks.
    Major likes this.
  16. God is still in authority in this earth However..............there are some things He needs mans permission before He can do. God Him self set this up this way.
    Abdicate and Cturtle say Amen and like this.
  17. Then you neither read properly what I said or understood it .
    and i find it a strange saying "I am in league with the Jews"
    In Christ
  18. Hello Brother Gerald,
    Brother Abdicate had written this to Glomung and his replies.
    God Bless
    Major and Abdicate say Amen and like this.
  19. My aplogies .
    In passing your remark that God needs our permission before he does somethings .Needs an explanation.
    For the only thing that I can think of that if it can be said as such ;he needs 'permision' ( a bad turn of phrase I think) from us is that we must be willing to let Him work in us according to His will.
    In all other things he needs no permission at all.
    and even in this no man should think that he has power over God .
    "For the heart of the king is in Gods hands"
    and God needed no permission at all to enter the feasting hall of Balthezar and write upon the wall his doom.
    For God is God. and in wisdom he has created all things . and he is God and we are man .
    and the Cross is not God asking permission. It is repent or perish. For man now has no excuse if he ever had one .

    in Christ
    Coop likes this.
  20. Goodness me, I did not mean to spark a theological debate!

    For the record the Catholics don't say we "need" to intercede to Mary. Merely that she is a soul in heaven who can pray for us.

    I suppose what you say makes sense. However reverence for Mary is never given without Jesus. She needed a savior, and hence that is why God made her sinless. Her immaculate conception, and sinless nature makes no sense but for the fact of her being a vehicle for bearing our Lord. As a vessel for Christ, it stands to reason she'd be somewhat distinct, or "Blessed among all women".

    And surely she was "Mother of God" not in the sense that she brought God himslef (Triune remember) into existence, but rather delivered one aspect of himslef into this world?

    Remember, Jesus was fully God and fully man. You cannot seperate one from the other. She was mother to God the son, the same way any woman is mother to a son, or so it seems to me.
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