Marriage & God's Formula

Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by Brother_Mike_V, Sep 7, 2017.

  1. John 1:14

    And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    Holiness/ Christ = (Truth + Grace) Love

    Something has been bothering about a lot of the preaching on "Grace" lately and it has occurred to me to point out the obvious:

    You cannot 'divorce' Truth [or the law, commandments, statutes, obedience, etc...] from Grace [mercy, long-suffering, patience, etc...] because they are both existent and part of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. As He is the perfect example and He is Truth and Grace in Love.

    Maybe our human minds just can't fully wrap our heads around this: we NEED both the truth and grace to pursue being like Christ. So why is there so much more preaching on grace than truth? Why does it seem to me the modern church is slowly moving away from preaching the 'truths' of the Bible?
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  2. People who fear being exposed or vulnerable have misunderstanding of their own truths. Self-honesty is dwindling. Avoiding responsibility is increasing. They fear the truth that we are totally responsible for our own thoughts and actions. Meaning, nobody to blame, nobody to forgive. Truth sets us free from our fears, but people no longer trust the Holy Spirit because they no longer know how to still, and know that I am God;... Psalm 45:10.

    The world, including religions and churches are geared towards instant gratification - hence the focus on grace. Even glorification of God has turned into seeking grace for self, doing it for self glorification. We have forgotten how the simply love the Love that loves us. In that loving the Love, is to connect unconditionally (humbled) with the Holy Spirit, and Truth and Grace (God's-will for us and the power to carry that out) will be revealed. But many Christians no longer practice daily prayer and meditation to do this. They leave it to others to do. No wonder they become lost sheep bleating.

    Relationships ought to be about relating to each other. Relating honestly and truthfully. Without truth, all they get is deceptions. All becomes exploitation for self. All becomes conditional, even love. Grace gets twisted to mean self worth and satisfaction, instead of favour/privilege to see the truth.
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  3. #3 sandpiper, Sep 8, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
    I think the preaching and teaching many are getting by watching various programs on TV and also in some churches has a great deal to do with shifting values especially here in the U.S. Somehow the spotlight has moved from focusing on what Jesus came to live, teach, and share unto how to believe in order to be prosperous. And that prosperity is considered grace. God does want us to receive His favor but sometimes what that really means gets somewhat distorted in lieu of our present culture and the emphasis on what God gives as opposed to who God is.

    Marriages are effected by this in that responsibility to see it through difficult times is lessened. Thus values to commit are diminished, and divorce is often chosen rather than trying to change attitudes and behavior to line up with gospel values.
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  4. Why has the post modern church moved away from preaching God's Law as revealed in the Bible?

    $imply put, it$ all about money. Happy talk fills church seats and pews. Talk about spiritual responsibility tends to make people uncomfortable and cuts into donation$. If your spiritual leader does not address the Biblical call for spiritual responsibility, of adherence to the Law, then he or she is a coward and a false shepherd. When was the last time you heard a sermon that called the congregation to repentance? Such messages are rare these days in all churches.


    Some teach that grace subverts or replaces the law, but Jesus said He didn't come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. Big difference. (Matt 5:17)
    Does the reader not know that the wages of sin is death? Those who refuse to make peace with God by surrendering to Christ Jesus will suffer the second death.
    This does not absolve the saved from punishment, however. Does the reader not know that judgment begins in the household of God? (1 Peter 4:17)
    God disciplines those He loves. - Hebrews 12:6

    The Law and Grace work together for salvation. Consider the bathroom mirror and sink.

    The Law convicts us of sin. It shows us how our actions look in God's eyes. It works like the bathroom mirror that shows us dirt on our faces that we would not normally see. But mirrors can't make our faces clean and the Law cannot absolve of sin.

    Grace, by the blood of Christ, removes our sin. We need soap and water from the sink to wash our faces and grace by means of the blood of Christ washes our sinful guilt away.

    The Law works together with Grace. Separately, the two cannot work effectively to save us.
  5. But isn't the Law for the Jews? The gentiles don't have the Law.
  6. Because of Christ... we have all been freed from the law of sin and death (Galatians 3:13)

    There is no more new or greek, slave or free... (Galatians 3:28)
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  7. I think you meant Jew or greek. And In CHRIST that is true. That's why I mentioned we are not under The Law.
  8. Yes, your right... got caught in a typo... lol.
    Besides The Apostle Paul said that love is the fulfillment of the law (Romans 13:10)

    Good catch!
    Blessings to you!
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  9. Christians are only under two laws in the new covenant, 1 the law of faith. 2 the law of liberty
    Romans 3: 27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith.
    James 1:25 But he that looketh into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and so continueth, being not a hearer that forgetteth but a doer that worketh, this man shall be blessed in his doing.
  10. Cturtle, why is the site not so busy....?
  11. Don't forget the law of Love.
    We are under Kingdom Laws which are All the Ways His Word has commanded us to live or operate once we are born again.

    We were set free from the curse of the law by the renewing or redeeming blood of Christ.

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  12. Uh? Where is the Law of Love stated in the scriptures? I must have missed it as a Law?
  13. Greetings BarElohim

    There are natural laws such as the law of gravity.
    There are also Spiritual Laws in which we are to operate under.
    These are Every Command Given us in His Most Holy Word.

    We are told over and over that we are to love Even As Christ and or God Loves.
    That's a Kingdom Law.

    Luke 10:26-27
    He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
    And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

    Galatians 5:14 says
    [L For] The whole law is ·made complete [summed up; fulfilled] in this one command: “Love your neighbor as you love yourself

    Galatians 5:6
    For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

    Love is required for true Biblical Faith.

    Mark 11:25
    When you stand praying - forgive - if you have aught against any, so your Father which is in Heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

    Forgiveness can Not work without Love.

    This is only a little glimpse of the Law of Love.

    Have a Blessed Day
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  14. If ye love me, keep my commandments.

    Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

    But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

    Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

    Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. ( Perfect = MATURE, Wise)

    A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

    This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
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  15. Jim and Fish, in my near 40 years walking with My Lord I have come to some pretty great revelations. and being a son of the most high He has never commanded me in anything. He has asked me to respect His desires over my own, but He has never commanded me as His son.
    What Father do you know gives commands to his sons or daughters or even a wife?
  16. BarElohim

    God's Word or Ways written to us are commandments or commands or how we are to operate as His Children.

    Commands such as Loving or Forgiving are not options or if you can or at least try.
    No Sir, God said do it.

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  17. Just in a slow period right now. Plus it's Friday night... all the people have other things to do I suppose... lol
    And we are a strictly moderated forum and a lot of people don't really like to adhere to the rules and stay peaceful.
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  18. Fish I understand what you are saying, however as we mature in the likeness of Christ character, to love is a part of our new nature, how can we not Love. Or forgiveness is a part of our new nature, how can we not forgive. He might of asked me to do it, at one time when I was younger, but when the perfect=matureing, came I put the childish things away..
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  19. I do agree but then again that new nature has to be developed and many fall short of doing that.

    Now then it does not change that Those are written as Commandments BUT what does change is us the believer and they become as second nature just as breathing is. We don't think about it but we just do it.

    A soldier is faced with commands everyday. As the soldier matures and becomes more like the soldier he is being trained to be, he may not need to be commanded every day to do things a certain way but the commands are still commands and just as vital.

    It is such in the kingdom of God.
    Blessings and thanks for the fellowship.
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  20. Well moderation is necessary I suppose, but didn't Jesus even get in a few faces. :D

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