Mark 16:9

Discussion in 'Answers' started by Unregistered, May 6, 2009.

  1. Mark 16:9

    A poster on another forum, the topic of which was questioning the authenticity of the last 12 verses in the book of Mark, wrote that it doesn’t really matter because there is no doctrinal teaching in Mark 16:9-20 that cannot be proved elsewhere in agreed Scripture.


    I made the mistake of sticking my nose into the discussion by pointing out that actually there is a statement in verse 9, as the KJV and similar versions have it, that is used for a doctrinal teaching that is to be found nowhere else in Scripture. As the KJV translates it, it is the only place that puts the resurrection on the first day of the week. I then suggested that whenever the discussion of seventh day observance versus first day observance comes up, first day proponents usually use the idea of a first day resurrection to justify the change, and when questioned about the day of resurrection, quote Mark 16:9. The poster came back with: “Quote a published author who has done that.” - I have not yet been able to come up with one. Does anyone here know of one?
     
  2. You've just stumbled upon one of many biblical contradictions.
    Keep digging, you'll fine plenty.
     
  3. That verse is completely absent from any of the original manuscripts. It also contains several peculiarities in style, vocabulary and as you pointed out, theological content that make it highly suspect as to having been recorded by Mark at all.

    In fact, many theologians accept that Marks Gospel actually ended with 16:8 and the original conclusion has been lost.

    It is also important to remember that Mark was not an Apostle, Mark recorded the events of Peter and his ministries so the chronology is often not in the order of occurance, rather in the order of Peter's preaching.

    It is due to ignorance of the facts that cause some to believe that there are contradictions in scripture when in fact, there are none.
     


  4. Only it's convenient for you to say there are no contardictions because you believe in the bible blindly.
    How is one to see these contradictions when one is blind, and not asking any questions?
     
  5. The answer I offered is clear, concise, and accurate. I was able to provide it because I have spent years and years in formal theological study of the Bible, the original manuscripts and autographa, a variety of philosophical belief systems concerning the afterlife including Plato, Nietzsche, and Socrates.

    How did you arrive at your particular little errant, misspelled, grammatically incorrect conclusion?
    A few moments on the internet?
     
  6. Charming reply.
    When confonted, do you often resort to insults? It is my understanding that this is not the way of god.

    Your education reflects your deluded and compartmentalised thought process. A clear sign of unfaltering commitment to mythology and woo woo.
    I'm sad to hear you've wasted so much time studying the word of man about god, of which was made up.
    There is no evidence that supports the existence of these characters, only scripture, which is unhelpful at best.

    Here's a little Mark twain Quote just for you:

    I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.
    - Mark Twain in Eruption


    You've done a great job of exemplifying the meaning of this quote.
     
  7. While this verse is absent in the Septuagint (which certainly contains spurious works) it certainly seems to present in most manuscripts and is included by most Bible translators. These are men who read and write Greek and Hebrew like I would read a newspaper.



    (ASV) Now when he was risen early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had cast out seven demons.

    (BBE) Now when he came back from the dead early on the first day of the week, he went first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had sent out seven evil spirits.

    (Bishops) When [Iesus] was rysen early, the first [day] after the Sabboth, he appeared firste to Marie Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seuen deuils.

    (CEV) Very early on the first day of the week, after Jesus had risen to life, he appeared to Mary Magdalene. Earlier he had forced seven demons out of her.

    (Darby) Now when he had risen very early, the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary of Magdala, out of whom he had cast seven demons.

    (DRB) But he rising early the first day of the week, appeared first to Mary Magdalen; out of whom he had cast seven devils.

    (EMTV) Now having arisen early on the first day of the week, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom He had cast out seven demons.

    (ESV) [[Now when he rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had cast out seven demons.

    (Geneva) And when Iesus was risen againe, early the first day of the weeke, he appeared first to Marie Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seuen deuils:

    (GNB) [After Jesus rose from death early on Sunday, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had driven out seven demons.

    (GNT) ᾿Αναστὰς δὲ πρωῒ πρώτῃ σαββάτου ἐφάνη πρῶτον Μαρίᾳ τῇ Μαγδαληνῇ, ἀφ᾿ ἧς ἐκβεβλήκει ἑπτὰ δαιμόνια.

    (GNT-BYZ+) ανασταςG450 V-2AAP-NSM δεG1161 CONJ πρωιG4404 ADV πρωτηG4413 A-DSF-S σαββατουG4521 N-GSN εφανηG5316 V-2API-3S πρωτονG4412 ADV-S μαριαG3137 N-DSF τηG3588 T-DSF μαγδαληνηG3094 N-DSF αφG575 PREP ηςG3739 R-GSF εκβεβληκειG1544 V-LAI-3S επταG2033 A-NUI δαιμονιαG1140 N-APN

    (GNT-TR) αναστας δε πρωι πρωτη σαββατου εφανη πρωτον μαρια τη μαγδαληνη αφ ης εκβεβληκει επτα δαιμονια

    (GNT-TR+) ανασταςG450 V-2AAP-NSM δεG1161 CONJ πρωιG4404 ADV πρωτηG4413 A-DSF-S σαββατουG4521 N-GSN εφανηG5316 V-2API-3S πρωτονG4412 ADV-S μαριαG3137 N-DSF τηG3588 T-DSF μαγδαληνηG3094 N-DSF αφG575 PREP ηςG3739 R-GSF εκβεβληκειG1544 V-LAI-3S επταG2033 A-NUI δαιμονιαG1140 N-APN

    (GNT-WH+) [[ανασταςG450 V-2AAP-NSM δεG1161 CONJ πρωιG4404 ADV πρωτηG4413 A-DSF-S σαββατουG4521 N-GSN εφανηG5316 V-2API-3S πρωτονG4412 ADV-S μαριαG3137 N-DSF τηG3588 T-DSF μαγδαληνηG3094 N-DSF παρG3844 PREP ηςG3739 R-GSF εκβεβληκειG1544 V-LAI-3S επταG2033 A-NUI δαιμονιαG1140 N-APN

    (GW) After Jesus came back to life early on Sunday, he appeared first to Mary from Magdala, from whom he had forced out seven demons.

    (HNT) והוא כאשר קם מן־המתים באחד בשבת נראה בראשנה אל־מרים המגדלית אשר גרש ממנה שבעה שדים׃


    (ISV) After Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had driven out seven demons.

    (KJV) Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

    (KJV+) NowG1161 when Jesus was risenG450 earlyG4404 the firstG4413 day of the week,G4521 he appearedG5316 firstG4412 to MaryG3137 Magdalene,G3094 out ofG575 whomG3739 he had castG1544 sevenG2033 devils.G1140

    (KJV-1611) Now when Iesus was risen early, the first day of the weeke, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seuen deuils.

    (KJVA) Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

    (KJVR) Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

    (MKJV) And when Jesus had risen early the first day of the Sabbath, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom He had cast seven demons.

    (Murdock) And in the morning of the first day of the week, he arose; and he appeared first to Mary Magdalena, from whom he had cast out seven demons.

    (RV) Now when he was risen early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had cast out seven devils.

    (Vulgate) surgens autem mane prima sabbati apparuit primo Mariae Magdalenae de qua eiecerat septem daemonia

    (Webster) Now when Jesus was risen early, the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven demons.

    (WNT) But He rose to life early on the first day of the week, and appeared first to Mary of Magdala from whom He had expelled seven demons.

    (YLT) And he, having risen in the morning of the first of the sabbaths, did appear first to Mary the Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven demons;
     
  8. Interestingly enough I was thinking how impossible it was for a lost man to understand the Word of God. Spiritual blindness can reduce interpretation of scripture to a complete misunderstanding and a dead theology.

    I have studied scripture for quite a while now and cannot find any of these so called contradictions that were not a matter of lack of background info or understanding.
     

  9. Again, your theological study does not merit a deep understanding of the world we live in. It simply highlights the fact that you choose to "know" as opposed to "question".

    These "questions" have led to modern medicine, technology and much, much more.

    Re: Contradictions:


    “You have heard the law that says, ‘Love your neighbor’ and hate your enemy. But I say, love your enemies! Pray for those who persecute you! In that way, you will be acting as true children of your Father in heaven. For he gives his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and he sends rain on the just and the unjust alike. If you love only those who love you, what reward is there for that? Even corrupt tax collectors do that much. If you are kind only to your friends, how are you different from anyone else? (Matthew 5:43-47 )"


    Contrast with:


    "So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds. (From the NIV Bible, Revelation 2:22-23)"




    Real nice book you two have there.
     
  10. Yes it is, you should try reading it sometime.

    Myself, God has blessed us with a beautiful sunny day outside.
    I think I shall go out and enjoy it!

    Matthew 7:6
    :)
     

  11. Wow talk about comparing apples and oranges- no wonder there is confusion over there.:p

    First you give reference to what Jesus Christ told folks to do in their earth walk and then try to compare it to the righteous judgment given by a holy God to unrepentant souls. These are two different things entirely .:D
    So again- no contradiction.
     
  12. I would offer that you would accept, by your own reasoning, that those who discredit Christianity or disallow the existance of God altogether and have no formal training or education in, or related to theological studies, would be equally deluded and compartementalized to the other end of the spectrum. Do you disagree? Also, do you find it incredulous that many of those that asked questions that "led to modern medicine, technology, and much more," were unto their death, are, or have become deists, theists, or (gasp!) born again Christians who have only had their faith strengthened by the answers to those very questions? To insinuate that the only path to true useable knowledge cannot include acceptence of the divine is no less ignorant of the world we live in than you claim Christians to be. You must know that science was born not of the question, " How did this happen without God?" but rather, "How did God do this?" I would suggest you open your own blinded eyes and research such individuals and how they came to faith throught the very efforts you would claim to have laid logical, disciplined intellectual claims to the existance of anything outside of your own cold, hard, meaningless(not you just the condition you have accepted) physical sphere to rest.
     
  13. It's the whole " you " v/s "I" concept that get's em, Larry. Sometimes it's hard to make the distinction, cause there's only 3 letters difference between the two.:rolleyes:
     
  14. Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word.

    John 8:43
     
  15. misfires irijurcotte

    ttp://biblecommenter.com/john/8-43.htm
     
  16. None can come unless He calls. He calls those He knows will respond. Those who do not want anything to do with Him will know Him. It does not have to be that way- think of what you are missing.
     
  17. I guess our unregistered guest has left us. However, it is such a shame that he/she can not see the Grace of God for what it is - Grace. Deserving the wrath of God in judgment, we instead receive His grace. So underserved, so wonderful. To ever presume that a loving God can not be a judgeing God as well is the ultimate presumption.

    The Scriptures from our loving, holy God are both a love letter from Him and a warning of coming judgment by Him on unrepentant man.
     
  18. I doubt that this is the end of the matter in the life of the unregistered guest. Something and Someone drew this person into this forum and this discussion. God's grace is never finished because we as sinners (saved or not) get worked up and angry. Nor is it finished because Christian witnesses see no evidence of any good accomplished. I know that my unbelief and stubbornness has never yet shut God down in His plans for my life.

    Just think of how many bold and angry opponents of Jesus Christ and the Scriptures have been turned around by God's kindness and overwhelming power? The history of the church is filled with such testimonies. Remember how Saul of Tarsus was on a mission to persecute the followers of Jesus? One day he is out terrorizing Christians and a short while later he was in the synagogues showing Jews how the Scriptures testify to Jesus as the Messiah. (Even the church found the whole thing a little hard to believe.) And his sudden and dramatic conversion is by no means the only such case. It is very possible that our visiting friend will also be on the other side of the fence in a few days or weeks, or maybe years later.

    Just a week or so before Jesus grabbed hold of my life I was in a downtown area of Houston, Texas, snatching handfuls of gospel tracts from the hands of Christians on the street who were desperately trying to reach us "hell-bent" dope heads. I remember laughing and yelling something sarcastic as I tossed those tracts up in the air and went on my way. We were "wasted youth," hopeless cases with hardened hearts and no hunger at all for God. We must have looked like a big waste of time to most Christian people.

    A week or two later, guess where I was? I was right back in the middle of that same downtown crowd, carrying my brand new Bible (a nice big one), and smiling at everyone with a joy that would not stop. My old friends saw me and started to approach when they saw the Bible and stopped in their tracks. I laughed when I saw the looks on their faces. They wanted to know just what in the world was going on. I told them the truth. I told them it was all Jesus. I told them that Jesus had saved my soul and that I was carrying that Bible around because I loved His Word, and that I just wanted to tell everyone what had happened to me.

    Needless to say, I never saw most of my old "friends" again. But you know what? My new friend Jesus never left me. He is truly a friend that sticks closer than a brother. My new life was so filled with good things that I never even missed the old gang. I still care about them, and I still pray for them. I understand them because I was once one of them. But in a single heartbeat, in the twinkling of an eye, God's grace brought me right over into the kingdom of His own dear Son.

    One day I was walking in darkness, feeling no need for God. And before that day was finished, I was laying everything down before the feet of Jesus, asking Him to take my whole life and make it right. When God says "let there be light," then suddenly there is light, and all the powers and forces of darkness in hell can do nothing but stand in awe.

    A passage in Ecclesiastes means a lot to me, when it comes to sowing good seed:
    He who observes the wind will not sow; and he who regards the clouds will not reap. As you do not know how the spirit comes to the bones in the womb of a woman with child, so you do not know the work of God who makes everything. In the morning sow your seed, and at evening withhold not your hand; for you do not know which will prosper, this or that, or whether both alike will be good. (Ecclesiastes 11:4-6, RSV)

    The immediate response of unbelievers to the message of Jesus Christ is never the important thing. (Unbelievers, after all, are not supposed to believe.) What matters is the sowing of good seed into the heart and soul of a fellow human being. God does the miracle part of changing unbelievers into believers.

    God's grace is never finished until He is satisfied that the work is done. (Ever wonder what happened to all those angry Pharisees, Sadducees and others who pushed so hard for the murder of Jesus? Take a closer look at the early church in the book of Acts, at all the Jewish converts — and all the priests and even Pharisees who ended up in the Jerusalem church!)

    Jim
     
  19. Grace, Grace, God's Grace
    Grace that can pardon and cleanse within
    Grace, Grace, God's Grace
    Grace that is greater than all my sin.
     

Share This Page