Many Will Say "lord, Lord..."

Intojoy said:
Fallen from grace in context meant going back to the law for sanctification, it does not mean loss of salvation. It means that living by a set of rules is not going to sanctify anyone because we are to live by faith and faith in positional truth. Positional truth says we already possess everything we need to live the mature Christian life. To go back to the law is to fall from grace living and return to law living.
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Well of course if one is "cut-off" that would suggest that salvation is very much in question, to fall from grace is a dangerous thing and one should very much consider these warnings as a threat to salvation. If one rejects the Spirit of grace of course they are in danger.
 
Candelario Mario Villa said:
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Well, Beloved, because this is an "open" forum, everyone can be brought into the conversation...and can agree or disagree with what is being said. Because of that, I will respect your question.
The JW's are also full of scriptures: yet can they be justified without the Gospel? Many denominations read where Abram believed God and was justified: I believed Abram believed God's promise: and that we also should believe in the promise to be saved (that is, speaking from an unsaved position).

Being "full of the scriptures" is a good thing, if it is done legitimately; that is, without accusations and then claiming to be offended.
If I present a scripture, I should expect to either be corrected, or heard. But as a common courtesy, I should be shown where I am being corrected: especially if I am being subtlety accused of doctrinal error,

As for speaking in tongues or raising the dead, I believe that God can give a man the opportunity to do both: after all, it is His Church, and His scriptures. I don't believe that everyone in the Church has the gift of speaking in tongues, nor the faith to raise the dead: but I would not want to limit God. And if the Church has the Holy Spirit in her, I would not limit the Holy Spirit, either!

Just my thoughts, Beloved. And I apologize to the Brethren if I have allowed my personal zest to offend all of you.
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Funny just had a couple of them (JW) today..its always a good sign that the gospel is going forth.. I used to preach this message and almost every time one of them or the Mormons would show up the day or night before I would preach...I thought it very odd for a while
 
Mitspa said:
Well of course if one is "cut-off" that would suggest that salvation is very much in question, to fall from grace is a dangerous thing and one should very much consider these warnings as a threat to salvation. If one rejects the Spirit of grace of course they are in danger.
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Ok. Maybe. But I don't see Paul teaching loss of salvation at all there.

Paul in Galatians is addressing what the Judaizers were telling Paul's gentile converts about what these Gentiles needed to do after accepting Yeshua in order to truly be followers of Yeshua that they had to get circumcised.

Paul responds to their false doctrine saying that they can cut their penis off completely, it wouldn't make any difference at all. And that if they tried to follow Yeshua by keeping Torah that they would not be living the life of faith or the life of grace, grace living, faith living. It is impossible to live for Christ by keeping Torah, it would by default make one fall from grace.

No charge for that bro
 
Mitspa said:
Funny just had a couple of them (JW) today..its always a good sign that the gospel is going forth.. I used to preach this message and almost every time one of them or the Mormons would show up the day or night before I would preach...I thought it very odd for a while
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Not odd, Beloved. You have what they needed to hear!
 
Intojoy said:
Ok. Maybe. But I don't see Paul teaching loss of salvation at all there.

Paul in Galatians is addressing what the Judaizers were telling Paul's gentile converts about what these Gentiles needed to do after accepting Yeshua in order to truly be followers of Yeshua that they had to get circumcised.

Paul responds to their false doctrine saying that they can cut their penis off completely, it wouldn't make any difference at all. And that if they tried to follow Yeshua by keeping Torah that they would not be living the life of faith or the life of grace, grace living, faith living. It is impossible to live for Christ by keeping Torah, it would by default make one fall from grace.

No charge for that bro
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Well I would put that warning with many others...such as Peters warning against those who turn from the "way of righteousness" that it would have been better for them not to have known the righteousness of faith that to turn from the truth. And most don't understand that MOST every warning in the New testament that would bring question to salvation is about this issue... It is the MOST dangerous thing a believer can do..yet no one declares the truth of it? Save a few..
 
Intojoy said:
Ok. Maybe. But I don't see Paul teaching loss of salvation at all there.
Paul in Galatians is addressing what the Judaizers were telling Paul's gentile converts about what these Gentiles needed to do after accepting Yeshua in order to truly be followers of Yeshua that they had to get circumcised.
Paul responds to their false doctrine saying that they can cut their penis off completely, it wouldn't make any difference at all. And that if they tried to follow Yeshua by keeping Torah that they would not be living the life of faith or the life of grace, grace living, faith living. It is impossible to live for Christ by keeping Torah, it would by default make one fall from grace.
No charge for that bro
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Very well put. The Galatians had not been rejected: they were still under Grace. But Paul was correcting the doctrine that they seemed to be receiving (not that they had already received it). So Paul said: If you do this, go back to the Law as your salvation, then you Grace can not benefit you, and you must keep the whole Law.
 
Intojoy said:
If mixedpah is preaching another gospel ( idk yet) why are you calling him beloved?
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"For God so loved the world...". I believe that we can ALL be corrected. There is no one here, that I can see, that is deliberately
preaching or teaching a false Gospel or doctrine. Else, everyone would have jumped on him/her! :)
 
Mitspa said:
Well I would put that warning with many others...such as Peters warning against those who turn from the "way of righteousness" that it would have been better for them not to have known the righteousness of faith that to turn from the truth. And most don't understand that MOST every warning in the New testament that would bring question to salvation is about this issue... It is the MOST dangerous thing a believer can do..yet no one declares the truth of it? Save a few..
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Well that's what I call trying to prove a doctrine thru irrelevant context. You have to do that multiple times and bunch all of those passages together in your own mind in order to feel better about your assumption.

I believe I've smoked the falling from grace error from your circle of error. Did you want to take a look at Peter?
 
Mitspa said:
The scriptures themselves put all sound doctrine under His revelation..as to be understood by what He taught as the true gospel. I have already posted some of these statements of the scriptures and there are many more....If any man teach a gospel other than that which Paul taught it is a false gospel... Even and Angel from heaven cannot contradict that which Paul has taught in his epistles.
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By "He" with a capital I assume you mean the Lord...Paul does not teach a different gospel nor is the correct "gospel" unique to Paul...the correct "gospel" is according to Jesus Christ and no other...Peter's gospel (which he was preaching before there was a Paul) is the same "gospel" (Jesus was the Christ sent from the Father, He died for our sins according to the scriptures and rose again from the dead for our justification (proof our faith is justifiable) on the third day...by grace, God has made salvation to be through faith in Him...by this you will be born from above (sealed with the Spirit...receive the gift of the Holy Ghost)...when Paul says "my gospel" or the 'gospel we have preached" it is the one and only gospel that was preached by all the Apostles, it is just that he was the one who preached it to them...
 
JustPassingThru said:
My, my, all this talk about the Gospel and 1 Cor 15 never mentioned,

And, brothers, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you have received, and in which you stand; by which you also are being kept safe, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. 1 Cor 15:1,2

The Gospel according to Paul,

For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received, that Christ died for our sins, according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures; 1 Co 15:3, 4

Paul also told us there are some who preach a different gospel Gal 1:6-9 and he is definitely telling us there are some who have believed in vain, so for me, rather than argue over which Gospel is the correct Gospel it's more important to search my heart and see if I have believed the Gospel Paul preached.

Blessings,

Gene
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Yes they who were preaching a different gospel were those mixing faith with works, grace with the law...judaizers
 
Candelario Mario Villa said:
_________________________________________________

Well, Beloved, because this is an "open" forum, everyone can be brought into the conversation...and can agree or disagree with what is being said. Because of that, I will respect your question.
The JW's are also full of scriptures: yet can they be justified without the Gospel? Many denominations read where Abram believed God and was justified: I believed Abram believed God's promise: and that we also should believe in the promise to be saved (that is, speaking from an unsaved position).

Being "full of the scriptures" is a good thing, if it is done legitimately; that is, without accusations and then claiming to be offended.
If I present a scripture, I should expect to either be corrected, or heard. But as a common courtesy, I should be shown where I am being corrected: especially if I am being subtlety accused of doctrinal error,

As for speaking in tongues or raising the dead, I believe that God can give a man the opportunity to do both: after all, it is His Church, and His scriptures. I don't believe that everyone in the Church has the gift of speaking in tongues, nor the faith to raise the dead: but I would not want to limit God. And if the Church has the Holy Spirit in her, I would not limit the Holy Spirit, either!

Just my thoughts, Beloved. And I apologize to the Brethren if I have allowed my personal zest to offend all of you.
Click to expand...

It is that we were just in the dark and had no idea what was going on. Still don't my brother. I find both you and Mitspha to be stand up Biblical believers. I do not agree with some of the things said, but who in the world believes everything I say.

You see, I do not believe that tongues or healing or raising the dead is valid today. I believe that there was a time when it was but that ended when the apostle John died. Today we have the completed Word of God in the form of the Bible and therefore the "sign gifts" are no longer needed. Now that is just me and if anyone disagreed, fine and dandy because I am not going to loose friends over something like that.
 
Intojoy said:
Fallen from grace in context meant going back to the law for sanctification, it does not mean loss of salvation. It means that living by a set of rules is not going to sanctify anyone because we are to live by faith and faith in positional truth. Positional truth says we already possess everything we need to live the mature Christian life. To go back to the law is to fall from grace living and return to law living.
Click to expand...

Absolutely correct and in fact.....that is the focus of the book to the Hebrews. Do not go back to the law! Stay with the Lord Jesus Christ!
 
Mitspa said:
Funny just had a couple of them (JW) today..its always a good sign that the gospel is going forth.. I used to preach this message and almost every time one of them or the Mormons would show up the day or night before I would preach...I thought it very odd for a while
Click to expand...

They did not know what you had for them..........but God knew and He sent them to you so that they would be able to hear the gospel.
 
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