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Lucifer - who is he?

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by smellycat, May 29, 2009.

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  1. false prophet.?
     
  2. Isaiah was speaking of the "Morning Star" or specifically the planet Venus.
    He was making a reference to the King of Babylon and ponting out his errogance and self destructive pride.

    In Hebrew it is helel - ben schacar which Jerome translated into "Lucifer" in the Latin Vulgate.
    helel means Venus, quite literally, and ben schacar means "the brilliant one, the son of the morning."

    If you think about Isaiah's audience, this makes perfect sense because they were Babylonians and Canaanites, both of these cultures made personified deities of all sorts of celestial bodies, so applying Venus as a manifestation of the King of Babylon's great pride and arrogance would have been extremely clear to them.

    This same king is the one who will lead Babylon in the last days, Revelation 13:4 and Revelation 17:3

    There is also a better description of this ruler in Ezekiel 28, I think if you read that you will see how clearly these two prophets describe the King of Babylon, AKA, the "Beast". :cool:
     
  3. Satan and the anti-Christ are not the same thing although many people come to that conclusion, but I don't think the Bible says that at all.
    I think it is important that we underestand that to avoid confusion.

    In Revelation 19:19-20 we see that the Beast, (anti-Christ) and the false prophets and the kings of the earth are gathered to make war, and are thrown into the lake of fire.

    However, in Revelation 20:1 Satan is bound for 1,000 years. (A very long time.) thrown into the abyss, and locked and sealed for a time.
    Clearly this is not the same person.
    Just to be clear Satan is not a person, he is an angel. :)

    The Beast, however, will be a person, and will in fact be a king, a great ruler. The verse you mentioned above, Isaiah 14:19 says that he will be "cast out of his grave (tomb), like an abominable branch."

    A proper burial was of the utmost importance to any ordinary individual. let alone a King!
    To have ones body, thrown out of the tomb, trampled or discarded is a terrible and demeaning fate. As it shall be for him.
     
  4. I believe that the term "Lucifer" refers to the devil, as well as to the mortal who is the object of the historical reference.

    As in many other portions of Scripture, the Spirit of God is speaking in Isaiah 14:12 of more than one thing. We know, for example, that snakes (including the one in Eden) are not evil beings of darkness that oppose God. We also know that the beasts of Daniel and Revelation are not strange animals with deformed bodies.

    In prophetic Scripture, especially, the words speak to more than one event and person. The Bible, after all, was not written thousands of years ago with messages that are only meaningful to our generation. Prophecy was given to living people and nations, some contemporary and some future. In every generation God's Word in Scripture is intended to reveal, to teach, to inform.

    For example, the passage in Isaiah 7:14, that we love to quote when thinking of the birth of Jesus, was not only written about the Messiah. Read the whole chapter, and the next. It was a direct message to people and events of Isaiah's day. Only later, looking back with the help of the Holy Spirit, and with the added witness of many other passages of Scripture, do the people of God recognize it as a Messianic prophecy. In this case, we are plainly told in the New Testament that Isaiah was also being used of God to foretell the birth of Jesus by a virgin.

    Likewise, the passage in Isaiah 14 that speaks against the king of Babylon and another in Ezekiel 28 that speaks against the king of Tyre are seen as more than merely historic messages aimed at mortal kings. They are viewed by many of God's people as insights into the spiritual realm and the struggles of the devil himself to rebel against the one true God.

    When taken with other passages in Scripture, I believe that the reference to Lucifer includes information about Satan's fall, as also mentioned by Jesus. (see Luke 10:17,18) Just as many Messianic passages only show glimpses, and not the whole story, so also the Bible references to the devil and his minions tend to only show bits and pieces.

    The Bible tends to reveal information specifically meaningful to our daily walk of faith with Jesus Christ. That is our greatest need. Only the devil really needs to know all about his past and all the stupid choices he has made along the way. We, on the other hand, need to be able to recognize evil tendencies in our own hearts, and to avoid the pitfalls revealed for us in Scripture.

    Jim
     
  5. Just my opinion:
    Angels walked as men amongst humanity on a common basis and I still believe Lucifer and Satan are one in the same.
    The Name Lucifer is literally translated light bearer or brings light. Compare that with the following verse:
    2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
     
  6. Lucifer, Satan and the Devil are three different names for the same angel. Lucifer refers to this angel when he lived in heaven. Satan and the Devil are names for this angel after he became evil and came to our earth. The Bible uses many names for Satan.

    Lucifer

    Lucifer was created by God as a perfect angel. He was called Lucifer while he lived in heaven. After he sinned and persistently refused to repent he was thrown out of heaven. When Lucifer was cast out of heaven he lost his name Lucifer and he became known as Satan.

    Names of Satan

    The Bible calls Satan by many different names. Each name has a slightly different meaning. The many other names for Satan give a fuller picture of who Satan is and what he does. There are more names for Satan in the Bible than for anyone else except Jesus Christ.
    Abaddon

    Hebrew name for Satan meaning “Destruction”. “And they had as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon.” Revelation 9:11
    Accuser

    “Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, ‘Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.’” Revelation 12:10
    Adversary

    “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.” 1 Peter 5:8
    Angel of light

    “And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.” 2 Corinthians 11:14
    Angel of the bottomless pit

    “And they had as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon.” Revelation 9:11
    Anointed covering cherub

    "You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones." Ezekiel 28:14
    Antichrist

    “And every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.” 1 John 4:3
    Apollyon

    Greek name for Satan meaning “Destroyer”. “And they had as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon.” Revelation 9:11
    Beast

    “9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, ‘If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.’” Revelation 14:9,10 Who is the beast?
    Beelzebub

    “Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, ‘This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.’” Matthew 12:24
    Belial

    “And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever?” 2 Corinthians 6:15
    Deceiver

    “So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Revelation 12:9
    Devil

    “He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.” 1 John 3:8
    Dragon

    “So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Revelation 12:9
    Enemy

    “The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels.” Matthew 13:39
    Evil one

    “I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.” John 17:15
    Father of lies

    “You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.” John 8:44
    God of this age

    “Whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.” 2 Corinthians 4:4
    King of Babylon

    “That you will take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say: ‘How the oppressor has ceased, The golden city ceased!’” Isaiah 14:4
    King of the bottomless pit

    “And they had as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon.” Revelation 9:11
    King of Tyre

    "Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "You were the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.”’” Ezekiel 28:12
    Lawless one

    “8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.” 2 Thessalonians 2:8-10
    Leviathan

    “In that day the LORD with His severe sword, great and strong,
    Will punish Leviathan the fleeing serpent,
    Leviathan that twisted serpent;
    And He will slay the reptile that is in the sea.” Isaiah 27:1
    Liar

    “You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.” John 8:44
    Little horn

    “ 9 And out of one of them came a little horn which grew exceedingly great toward the south, toward the east, and toward the Glorious Land. 10 And it grew up to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and some of the stars to the ground, and trampled them. 11 He even exalted himself as high as the Prince of the host; and by him the daily sacrifices were taken away, and the place of His sanctuary was cast down.” Daniel 8:9-11
    Lucifer

    "12 How you are fallen from heaven,
    O Lucifer, son of the morning!
    How you are cut down to the ground,
    You who weakened the nations!
    13 For you have said in your heart:
    'I will ascend into heaven,
    I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
    I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
    On the farthest sides of the north;
    14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
    I will be like the Most High.'” Isaiah 14:12-14
    Man of sin

    “3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.” 2 Thessalonians 2:3,4
    Murderer

    “44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.” John 8:44
    Power of darkness

    “13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.” Colossians 1:13, 14
    Prince of the power of the air

    “1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience.” Ephesians 2:1,2
    Roaring lion

    “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.” 1 Peter 5:8
    Rulers of the darkness

    “For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.” Ephesians 6:12
    Ruler of demons

    “But some of them said, ‘He casts out demons by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.’” Luke 11:15
    Ruler of this world

    “31 Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. 32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.” John 12:31,32
    Satan

    “And He was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted by Satan, and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered to Him.” Mark 1:13
    Serpent of old

    “So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Revelation 12:9
    Son of perdition

    “3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.” 2 Thessalonians 2:3,4
    Star

    “Then the fifth angel sounded: And I saw a star fallen from heaven to the earth. To him was given the key to the bottomless pit.” Revelation 9:1
    Tempter

    “Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, ‘If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.’” Matthew 4:3
    Thief

    “The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.” John 10:10
    Wicked one

    “Above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one.” Ephesians 6:16


    Godbe4me
     
  7. Wow that pretty well sums it all up .... Thanks for that research .... Awesome .

    LUCIFER
    LU'CIFER, n. L. lux, lucis, light, and fero, to bring.
    1. The planet Venus, so called from its brightness.
    2. Satan.
    And when he falls, he falls like Lucifer, never to hope again.
     
  8. Lucifer and Satan are the same. The problem comes from making the beginning mentioned in John 8:44 the same as the time of the creation of Satan. Satan was a murderer from the beginning (John 8:44) and he sinned from the beginning (1John 3:8). However, there is no reason to think that this beginning is identical with his creation. There are numerous beginnings in the Bible. Philippians 4:15 speaks of the "beginning of the gospel." In Acts 11:15, Peter refers to "the beginning." However, from the context it is clear that he is referring to the day of Pentecost in Acts 2.


    In Isaiah 14:12-15, where Satan’s original rebellion against God is recorded, the devil desired to exalt his throne above the stars of God (v.13). In order to exalt his throne, he had to have a throne. A throne indicates a place of rule and dominion as well as a kingdom to rule over. Yet, this kingdom which was ruled by Satan before the fall was below the stars of God and below the heights of the clouds. What is left? The earth is left. Satan had a throne on the earth before he rebelled against God. This would explain how he got his claim to earth. The earth before Genesis 1:2 was Lucifer’s original domain. It was his original commission from God.
     

  9. Good thoughts. While I do not embrace all the ideas that Jack Chick holds on Bible translations (I appreciate any and all genuine efforts to bring the Scriptures into the English language), I did find his little study of interest and value on this topic. He points out some of the pitfalls of hurried interpretation and the value of making our English terms as accurate as possible, when using the the Bible to teach sound doctrine. You can see his remarks (or those of [SIZE=-1]David W. Daniels) here: Should the Bible say “Lucifer” or “morning star” in Isaiah 14:12? And does it refer to Satan? .

    Jim
    [/SIZE]
     
  10. Boanerges.. :) I agree. This is what came to my mind when I read the OP's post too. Thanks for the scripture reference included. :bible:
     
  11. MODERATOR'S COMMENT

    This thread has been well discussed. Everyone has stated their views and no one is changing their minds.

    With that in mind, it is the opinion of the Moderators, nothing further is to be gained and the thread will be closed.

    If anyone wishes to add something to this thread that is of a differing viewpoint and has not already been covered, please let anyone on the Moderator Team know, and reopening of this thread will be considered.

    We thank all who participated.
     
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