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'Little White' Lies

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Siloam, Feb 13, 2015.

  1. I would like to discuss this community’s views on what is sometimes termed “little white lies”. Not those big or small utterances consciously intended to manipulate or deceive another, but the polite niceties that are often said in well meaning circumstances.


    Someone you dislike for whatever reason sits behind you in church and the pastor asks that each turn and greet those around. You say something like “So happy to see you today”; or if you are feeling superior and think HIS halo is tarnished rather than your own, you might say “So happy that you are here to hear God’s teaching today”.
    Your child is to have possibly painful dental work done and you say “It really won’t hurt much”.
    A lady friend is having a ‘bad hair day’ and you say how beautiful her dress is when it is not really a style you appreciate.


    This has been going through my mind lately in my meditations. It was probably spurred by my coming across the circuit court opinion in the stolen valor case where a politician falsely claimed to be a Medal of Honor recipient when running for the Board of Directors in a local (or regional?) water commission. This case went on to the Supremes, but what concerns me here is the discussion of our culture in the


    Although this case is not about ‘little’ lie, but a self serving attempt at manipulation, the parts that caught my eye are regards to white lies are:

    Chief Judge Kozinski wrote:

    So what, exactly, does the dissenters’ ever-truthful utopia look like? In a word: terrifying. If false factual statements are unprotected, then the government can prosecute not only the man who tells tall tales of winning the Congressional Medal of Honor, but also the JDater who falsely claims he’s Jewish or the dentist who assures you it won’t hurt a bit. Phrases such as “I’m working late tonight, hunny,” “I got stuck in traffic” and “I didn’t inhale” could all be made into crimes. Without the robust protections of the First Amendment, the white lies, exaggerations and deceptions that are an integral part of human intercourse would become targets of censorship, subject only to the rubber stamp known as “rational basis review.”
    A few paragraphs later he wrote:

    Saints may always tell the truth, but for mortals living means lying. We lie to protect our privacy (“No, I don’t live around here”); to avoid hurt feelings (“Friday is my study night”); to make others feel better (“Gee you’ve gotten skinny”); to avoid recriminations (“I only lost $10 at poker”); to prevent grief (“The doc says you’re getting better”); to maintain domestic tranquility (“She’s just a friend”); to avoid social stigma (“I just haven’t met the right woman”); for career advancement (“I’m sooo lucky to have a smart boss like you”); to avoid being lonely (“I love opera”); to eliminate a rival (“He has a boyfriend”); to achieve an objective (“But I love you so much”); to defeat an objective (“I’m allergic to latex”); to make an exit (“It’s not you, it’s me”); to delay the inevitable (“The check is in the mail”); to communicate displeasure (“There’s nothing wrong”); to get someone off your back (“I’ll call you about lunch”); to escape a nudnik (“My mother’s on the other line”); to namedrop (“We go way back”); to set up a surprise party (“I need help moving the piano”); to buy time (“I’m on my way”); to keep up appearances (“We’re not talking divorce”); to avoid taking out the trash (“My back hurts”); to duck an obligation (“I’ve got a headache”); to maintain a public image (“I go to church every Sunday”); to make a point (“Ich bin ein Berliner”); to save face (“I had too much to drink”); to humor (“Correct as usual, King Friday”); to avoid embarrassment (“That wasn’t me”); to curry favor (“I’ve read all your books”); to get a clerkship (“You’re the greatest living jurist”); to save a dollar (“I gave at the office”); or to maintain innocence (“There are eight tiny reindeer on the rooftop”).
    --Excerpts taken from the opinion of the Ninth Circuit Court in United States vs Alvarez filed March 21, 2011.​

    I am not talking here of the legal aspects, or constitutional concerns. I am also not talking about conscious attempts to deceive, or to manipulate. In many cases these falsehoods are done out of a caring concern, or at least to avoid disharmony. I know that when you act in accordance with Love, you are in fulfillment of the Law and the Prophets, but if you find yourself habitually or lightly disregarding the commandments and His other laws, you (or more to the point I ) need to examine motives. As I am coming more and more to understand, my most critical eye needs to be used when gazing in the mirror.

    I invite comments.

    Thanks
    JH
    -------

    Never regard study as a duty, but as the enviable opportunity to learn to know the liberating influence of beauty in the realm of the spirit for your own personal joy and to the profit of the community to which your later work belongs. -- Albert Einstein
     
  2. Lying is lying. What is the root of all lies? Fear.

    Christains a many have no intergrity or care about "Thou Shalt Not Lie"

    They come up with wild cases of lying to protect someone from German soilders banging on the door...... "No Jews here today."
    Being ignorant that the power of God is more than enough to protect us from wicked and unreasonable men.

    They do so to protect the fact they lie, and think it's OK.

    Sure, Santa will be here honey, and leave lots of presents. Unless a fat guy with red clothes is going to break in and leave presents, no believer should lie to their children.

    Another lie is saying........ I forgot, I am sorry, I just got busy and forget to come over and help you.

    Another lie believers tell. They forgot........ Now someone might say that we can forget things, and it's human.

    I submit that belivers only forget things that are not important enough to keep their word.

    I have never met even a unsaved person who lives pay check to pay check ever forget to get their check from Work on Friday.

    If the bank announced they were giving 1 million dollars to everyone on tuesday at 12pm, just show up and don't be late. People don't forget things like that.

    A more honest answer is, what I promised you was not important enough to write down and remember.

    We can answer yes, No, or not answer at all. That is our scriptural options.

    All lying is rooted from fear, and that is the devils ground.
     
    Juk likes this.
  3. Here is a conversation about 1 Sam. 16:1-6, where God tells Samuel not to be entirely up-front about his reasons for going to a certain place: http://www.journal33.org/lovenbr/html/samullie.htm

    Many people, myself included, see this as a clear case of "misinformation" sanctioned by God, as a matter of safety. I do believe that sometimes the truth can do unnecessary harm, such as when someone is wearing a truly hideous shirt but it's not the time or place to tell them so. I do believe there are gray areas.
     
  4. I guess that would depend on the intents and purposes of the heart which God always looks at. If our intent was to deceive that is never a good thing. It's like the woman who asks her husband, "Honey, does this dress make me look to fat?". and the husbands says, "Not to me, just to every one else" :)
    Sometimes it is very hard to keep our mouths shut, when we live in times, when every one wants an answer from you right now.
    As James tells us we are to be quick to hear, but slow to speak (James 1:19). Then we have from Ecc which tells us to let our words be few on this earth (Ecc 5:2). If you like to talk a lot that could be a problem. We also find that the tongue can be tamed by no man. (James 3:8) So it depends on who is in control of our tongue.
    I guess walking in the Spirit also has to do with what we say out of our mouths.
     
  5. Ever hear the expression (in Proverbs) the little foxes spoil the vine? You see the large foxes just jump up and grab a bunch of grapes and take off, but the little ones gnaw at the base and eventually the whole vine falls. Do you get it?
     
  6. I take what comes out of my mouth very serious. I don't take the careless attitude in thinking there are grey areas.

    Every idle word we speak (Non working words dormant in our true belief system from the heart) We have to give an account.

    by our words we choose to be blessed or cursed. To side with fear and death or peace and life.

    If the wife ask me if He boobs have gotten smaller, I just look at her and say I am not going to answer that. It's amazing how easy a topic can hurt someones feelings, and far be it from me to hurt God's daughter from something that seems innocent.

    Jesus gives us a great example how to handle these things. He normally answered questions with a question of his own.

    If someone ask you if you like their shirt, I would say, "why do you ask, you have issues with it?"

    Lying is telling something you don't believe, or to get someone to believe something you know not true.

    Telling truth, but in a way you know will get someone to believe wrong is also lying.

    Mar 11:33 kjv+ And they answered and said unto Jesus, We cannot tell. And Jesus answering saith unto them, Neither do I tell you by what authority I do these things.
     
    CCW95A likes this.
  7. I just want to reply to this part of your post.
    This we read above is not any kind of lie. We are taught to walk in love.
    We are told to bless and pray for those who persecute us or bother us or simply anoy us.
    All of the above fits into this pattern...
     
  8. I like:
    Ask me no questions, I tell you no lies. ​

    :D

    We humans don't want the truth on the whole. We make songs about it "Little Lies" by Fleetwood Mac, and make it a joke in a commercial, "Geico with Honest Abe and his wife". Society has conditioned everyone to make telling the truth a rude event and turned many to insecure minions not even knowing that this very conditioning is why they're insecure! Just a thought.
     
  9. There are only two paths to travel
    right and wrong
    or
    just and unjust
    or
    righteous and unrighteous.
    Regardless of what name you give them
    they are Godly
    or
    ungodly
    Between the two there is nothing
    no
    gray area
    no
    allowances for any person
    or
    reason
    Nothing short of the will of God
    can ever be or turn in to anything Godly
    The path of a Godly person is narrow
    every choice in their life is an intersection
    a
    fork in the road
    with only two options
    I fall short under my power
    Thank You Jesus for Your love
    and
    forgiveness
    and
    being my salvation
    The only way for anyone to do Gods will
    is
    through Holy Spirit
    Whom You sent me
    Thank You Jesus
    peter
     

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