List Of Your Favorite Lose Your Salvation Verses.

dUmPsTeR said:
I also study the Bible, pray to YHWH, and try to live to please our maker. I don't believe in the Trinity doctrine. Just God and Jesus and their spirit power.
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Then you can not be a Christian my friend!

Now many will disagree with that statement but I assure you that it is Biblical and it is truthful. You may not like it but there it is. Now consider these 3 things...........

1. The Trinity matters for creation.
God, unlike the gods in other ancient creation stories, did not need to go outside himself to create the universe. Instead, the Word and the Spirit were like his own two hands (to use Irenaeus’ famous phrase) in fashioning the cosmos. God created by speaking (the Word) as the Spirit hovered over the chaos.

2. The Trinity matters for evangelism and cultural engagement.
I’ve heard it said that the two main rivals to a Christian worldview at present are Islam and Postmodernism. Islam emphasizes unity—unity of language, culture, and expression—without allowing much variance for diversity. Postmodernism, on the other hand, emphasizes diversity—diversity of opinion, belief, and background—without attempting to see things in any kind of meta-unity. Christianity, with its understanding of God as three in one, allows for diversity and unity. If God exists in three distinct Persons who all share the same essence, then it is possible to hope that God’s creation may exhibit stunning variety and individuality while still holding together in a genuine oneness.

3. The Trinity matters for relationships.
We, Christians, worship a God who is in constant and eternal relationship with himself as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Community is a buzz word in American culture, but it is only in a Christian framework that communion and interpersonal community are seen as expressions of the eternal nature of God. Likewise, it is only with a Trinitarian God that love can be an eternal attribute of God. Without a plurality of persons in the Godhead, we would be forced to think that God created humans so that he might show love and know love, thereby making love a created thing (and God a needy deity). But with a biblical understanding of the Trinity we can say that God did not create in order to be loved, but rather, created out of the overflow of the perfect love that had always existed among Father, Son, and Holy Spirit who ever live in perfect and mutual relationship and delight.
 
Intojoy said:
Here's a good place to deal with what is known as "positional truth".
Since once a person has eternal life he is eternal, difficult passages must be dealt with in accordance with salvation by grace alone apart from any works at all.
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There are NO verses in the Scripture that teach one may lose his/her salvation after they are truely saved.
 
KingJ said:
Favorite, lol. More like scariest.

Mine would be 1 Tim 1:18-20 Timothy, my son, I am giving you this command in keeping with the prophecies once made about you, so that by recalling them you may fight the battle well, 19 holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and so have suffered shipwreck with regard to the faith. 20 Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.

This verse tells me two important things. 1. We can shipwreck of our salvation. 2. God has a large threshold. He hands us over to satan not for death but as a last resort / hope for us to come right. Which then also implies we can remain shipwrecked and lose salvation. Its like a separation before divorce. The spouse that commits adultery is behind the divorce.

I will admit that there are two ways of looking at this. 1. That God knows who will make complete shipwreck and they be those He mentions in Matt 7:22. They were never truly saved in the first place or 2. They were saved and made shipwreck.

Arminianism and once ''truly'' saved always saved are not that different imho. I choose to believe that we can make shipwreck because we are told to judge ourselves daily in fear and trembling before God. I also believe that God removes Himself from being all knowing on our ultimate choices to allow true free will to exist. Part of Him being impartial and omniscient at the same time.

But we must acknowledge that the bottom line is the same. If we judge ourselves to be continuing in any of the sins mentioned by Paul in 1 Cor 6:9-13, we are as he says, not going to be in heaven. If we are all dead honest with ourselves...we know that we can all continue in those sins if we ''give in'' to that level of inner rebellion against God. We can taste it is there but resist it because we respect and love the Lord. Like a wife we refuse to commit adultery on.
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The passage of the handing over to Satan deals with physical punishment. As believers Christ has the power of death and we are put to rest by Him. However the leaders of the local churches have been given special authority to deliver some Christians over to satan (who still has the authority of putting unbelievers to death) for the destruction of those believers flesh which results in an early death that takes away the fruit bearing possibilities in this life of which we are obligated to bear. There is no mention of the loss of salvation or spiritual punishment so I have to understand your quote in the light of other scriptural truths. For example, the passage doesn't say anything about fruit-bearing but I know we have been saved for this purpose therefore an early death means no fruit and non-rewards in the kingdom.
 
Intojoy said:
Amen Sargent Major!

I'd like to deal with the problem verses as they appear.
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As would I. In fact, if someone/anyone would like to do that, list the verse you think says man can lose his salvation and my friend "Intojoy" and myself will be glad to explain the proper meaning of those verses. One verse at a time please.

Is that acceptable to you Mr. Joy???
 
Intojoy said:
The passage of the handing over to Satan deals with physical punishment. As believers Christ has the power of death and we are put to rest by Him. However the leaders of the local churches have been given special authority to deliver some Christians over to satan (who still has the authority of putting unbelievers to death) for the destruction of those believers flesh which results in an early death that takes away the fruit bearing possibilities in this life of which we are obligated to bear. There is no mention of the loss of salvation or spiritual punishment so I have to understand your quote in the light of other scriptural truths. For example, the passage doesn't say anything about fruit-bearing but I know we have been saved for this purpose therefore an early death means no fruit and non-rewards in the kingdom.
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It can also mean that "excommunication" from the church is in view as indicated in 1 Corth. 5:3-5. That would come under the heading of Church Disipline which we no nothing about in this day of liberalism.
 
Major said:
As would I. In fact, if someone/anyone would like to do that, list the verse you think says man can lose his salvation and my friend "Intojoy" and myself will be glad to explain the proper meaning of those verses. One verse at a time please.

Is that acceptable to you Mr. Joy???
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Yea it is. God loves us so much. I'm not worthy of the grace I've received. It is my firm conviction that the reason why believers fail to live and enjoy a victorious sanctified life in this age is because they do not fully understand all that was forgiven and all that has been provided to do so. Believing that we can lose our salvation is counter productive, it provides a motive opposite of grace to live godly, it operates out of fear. We will fail if we take that route and that is why I posted theses cookoo
Thread topics.
 
For example, the passage doesn't say anything about fruit-bearing but I know we have been saved for this purpose therefore an early death means no fruit and non-rewards in the kingdom.
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Voilà, ...future rewards, that is a subject much more profitable than believers wrestling and striving over if we can lose our salvation, ...in Eternity we won't be gloating over who is right and who was wrong, but rather we should be more concerned about what we do with our talents (gifts) and time (opportunities) while still on this earth, ...it will determine our capacity to enjoy Eternity for all of Eternity.


But to be faithful to this thread, the famous Hebrews verse is talking about repentance and not salvation, just read it without any preconceived ideas or agenda (thanks Bill for the word).

And I personally don't know of any verse(s) that talk about a born again believer losing their salvation, ...how does a person become unborn???


Blessings,

Gene
 
Major said:
Then you can not be a Christian my friend!

Now many will disagree with that statement but I assure you that it is Biblical and it is truthful. You may not like it but there it is. Now consider these 3 things...........

1. The Trinity matters for creation.
God, unlike the gods in other ancient creation stories, did not need to go outside himself to create the universe. Instead, the Word and the Spirit were like his own two hands (to use Irenaeus’ famous phrase) in fashioning the cosmos. God created by speaking (the Word) as the Spirit hovered over the chaos.

2. The Trinity matters for evangelism and cultural engagement.
I’ve heard it said that the two main rivals to a Christian worldview at present are Islam and Postmodernism. Islam emphasizes unity—unity of language, culture, and expression—without allowing much variance for diversity. Postmodernism, on the other hand, emphasizes diversity—diversity of opinion, belief, and background—without attempting to see things in any kind of meta-unity. Christianity, with its understanding of God as three in one, allows for diversity and unity. If God exists in three distinct Persons who all share the same essence, then it is possible to hope that God’s creation may exhibit stunning variety and individuality while still holding together in a genuine oneness.

3. The Trinity matters for relationships.
We, Christians, worship a God who is in constant and eternal relationship with himself as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Community is a buzz word in American culture, but it is only in a Christian framework that communion and interpersonal community are seen as expressions of the eternal nature of God. Likewise, it is only with a Trinitarian God that love can be an eternal attribute of God. Without a plurality of persons in the Godhead, we would be forced to think that God created humans so that he might show love and know love, thereby making love a created thing (and God a needy deity). But with a biblical understanding of the Trinity we can say that God did not create in order to be loved, but rather, created out of the overflow of the perfect love that had always existed among Father, Son, and Holy Spirit who ever live in perfect and mutual relationship and delight.
Click to expand...

The Trinity doctrine is fabricated by man. The only verse in the Bible that man tries to justify it with is in 1st john 5:7-8, which was added by translaters in the early 4th century.

If you read the beginning of every book in the 'new testament' it mentions God and Jesus, but not the holy spirit as a third entity. The holy spirit is either God or Jesus projecting their power.

And if you say I'm not a Christian, I'm fine with that because to me, Christians have proported the Bible to their own satisfaction, giving/making Christian a bad word.
 
The Trinity doctrine is fabricated by man
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Surely you jest, why the very first verse of the Bible teaches the Trinity, In the beginning God (Elohim- used 2605 times in the OT) created..., for someone wanting to be Jewish you don't know much about the language,

God singular in Hebrew is EL
God plural in Hebrew is ELLA,
God in three or more is Elohim.

Then He goes on to show us,
vs 2 the Holy Spirit moved,
vs 3 the Word (Son) was spoken by the Father
vs 4 God saw, our word Elohim again, Father, Son Holy Spirit,

There's just four uses of the word Elohim, I suggest you use a good concordance to look up the other 2601 times Elohim is used in the OT and I think you will change your mind, ...unless you ascribe the Bible to be man made.

Blessings,

Gene
 
JustPassingThru said:
Surely you jest, why the very first verse of the Bible teaches the Trinity, In the beginning God (Elohim- used 2605 times in the OT) created..., for someone wanting to be Jewish you don't know much about the language,

God singular in Hebrew is EL
God plural in Hebrew is ELLA,
God in three or more is Elohim.

Then He goes on to show us,
vs 2 the Holy Spirit moved,
vs 3 the Word (Son) was spoken by the Father
vs 4 God saw, our word Elohim again, Father, Son Holy Spirit,

There's just four uses of the word Elohim, I suggest you use a good concordance to look up the other 2601 times Elohim is used in the OT and I think you will change your mind, ...unless you ascribe the Bible to be man made.

Blessings,

Gene
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Gene, thank you. I will use the strongs concordance and the Hebrew lexicons to check it out. Please don't think I detract anything from your beliefs or integrity, and I appreciate your genuine concern for the truth of our Almighty Creator.
 
dUmPsTeR said:
Gene, thank you. I will use the strongs concordance and the Hebrew lexicons to check it out. Please don't think I detract anything from your beliefs or integrity, and I appreciate your genuine concern for the truth of our Almighty Creator.
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The Trinity is an antimony. The scripture teaches plurality in the Godhead limited to three persons.
 
dUmPsTeR said:
The Trinity doctrine is fabricated by man. The only verse in the Bible that man tries to justify it with is in 1st john 5:7-8, which was added by translaters in the early 4th century.

If you read the beginning of every book in the 'new testament' it mentions God and Jesus, but not the holy spirit as a third entity. The holy spirit is either God or Jesus projecting their power.

And if you say I'm not a Christian, I'm fine with that because to me, Christians have proported the Bible to their own satisfaction, giving/making Christian a bad word.
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I am not saying anything that you are not. I am however saying that the belief in the Trinity of God is a basic, fundamental teaching that Christians do in fact believe in.

The fact that you have not seen the Holy Spirit in the New Testament verses that you mentioned does in fact say that you need to question whether or not you are saved.

You see my friend, it is the Holy Spirit that convicts the lost man of his sin and then it is the Holy Spirit that points that lost man to Christ so that he can be saved.

I would encourage you to do some more reading because it seems to me you have missed one of the most important doctrines there is in the Bible.

Matt. 28:19
"Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost:.

The fat is that there is no shortage of Biblical evidence for the diety of the Holy Spirit. He is spoken of in all the Scriptures as God. The attributes of God are assigned to Him. He is engaged in the total work of God. He receives honor due only to God. He was recognized by the early church as God both in the baptism formula and the apostolic benediction.
 
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