Learning Truth.

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by CCW95A, May 19, 2014.

  1. Many years ago after coming to the Lord Jesus Christ every body I knew, plus most, if not all the Churches were teaching to put the Word of God first in your life. So I did that, every thing I learned came from reading the Bible. But how many times do we read the Word of God and not have a clue what is says? So, normally we either read the commentary contained within the pages of the Word, or we would ask our pastor what it meant. Today we search the Internet seeking answers, and there are all kinds of different interpretations which are all over the place. Just choose one out of many to believe.

    The Devil is not dumb, he knows to be able to keep the Church in disarray he needs a doctrine that sounds holy and good, and that can not be thought of as being wrong. How could putting the Word of God first in your life be a bad thing? There were times I would ask the Lord something and then I would just flip open my Bible and start reading to get my answer. That was really really dumb, and I am sure a lot of people today are still doing that.

    At this point in my Christan life I did not know what the Lord wanted me to do. I knew that praying

    was very important, especially praying in the Spirit. I would do that for hours, and then I would ask the Lord for interpretation of what I was saying. The Lord appeared to me in a vision while praying, and I asked him “what do you want me to do?”, He said, “I want you to teach my Word” I was not happy with that answer because number one I don't know anything about the Bible, except Jesus loves me yes I know for the Bible tells me so. Number two, I am a very shy, introverted person, and my command of the English language is not nonexistent. I told him “you have the wrong guy.” But I could tell I was not getting through to him in changing his mind. So, I did next best thing I could think of at that moment to try, and get the Lord to change his mind. I said, “OK, I'll do it, but only if you teach me yourself, face to face, and what ever you teach me will be the only words that will come out of my mouth.” The Lord agreed with that, but I was still not happy. I did not want the Lord to agree with my request. I was hoping that I was asking to much for him to do. My mistake!

    One of the first things I was taught was that the very first thing you put in your life in being able to understand scriptures is the Father. When you read the Bible first, and you don't understand what you are reading where do you turn to get clarification? This is the problem we have today. The only place you can go to get the truth is from the one who spoke the Word, which is God the Father. We have our priorities out of place. It is not the Word you put first, it is the Father!!!! Some might think that kind of thinking is blasphemy. Jesus had no problems with this as he tells us.......


    John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.


    The Word of God will never speak to us until the Father speaks. We do not go to the Word first, we go to the Word second. Not until you hear the Father, he teaches you something, and only then do you go to the Word of God, in which the Father will confirm what he has taught in His Word!!!! If you do it any other way all you will have is the tradition of man, based on the elementary teaching of this world, and not after Christ. Then the Holy Spirit will bear witness to what the Father has taught you. Without three witnesses you will not have truth. Father, Son (Word), Holy Spirit. This is the divine order in which God works and teaches his Children. We are the student, and the Father is the teacher, and we do not choose what is to be learned. That is the responsibility of the teacher not the student.

    In other words, without having a face to face relationship with God the Father the Word of God will only be a mystery to us.
     
  2. Your comment was.............
    "The Word of God will never speak to us until the Father speaks. We do not go to the Word first, we go to the Word second".


    NOPE! I can not agree with that at all my brother. In fact I get real nervous when someone claims that God spoke to them audibly with out the Scriptures being involved. Really for one reason, how do you know it was God? What validation was there to confirm it was God. Do not say YOU were able to tell because you are just like me, a sinner saved by grace.

    Heb. 1:1 ----ESV,
    "Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets".

    2 Timothy 3:16–17 (ESV)
    16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.


    Psalms 19:1...........
    " The heavens are telling of the glory of God; and their expanse is declaring the work of His hands. Day to day pours forth speech, and night to night reveals knowledge. There is no speech, nor are there words; their voice is not heard. Their line has gone out through all the earth, and their utterances to the end of the world".

    Romans 1:18............
    The voice of the Creator comes through the heavens. It’s the Lord speaking, declaring His glory to us through nature. In Romans 1 Paul says that the whole world can see God through the things He has created. The evidence is undeniable.

    IMO, for what ever it is worth, God may sometimes speak audibly to people. It is highly doubtful, though, that this occurs as often as some people claim it does. Again, even in the Bible, God speaking audibly is the exception, not the ordinary. If anyone claims that God has spoken to him or her, always compare what is said with what the Bible says. If God were to speak today, His words would be in full agreement with what He has said in the Bible because God does not contradict Himself.
     
  3. The best way to prove truth is comparing scripture. Studying all references in scripture on a subject or concept will reveal truth of the Mysteries. Sometimes this is a long process, one that may be intended by God, to allow the truth to sink in our hard hearts. But it is exciting when the revelation hits you.
    CCW, I would like to hear more about your evolution into teaching, as in started with... progressed to ... and such.
     
  4. Big Moose, cool name, are you big? There is a lot more to learning scripture then what I have said here. Comparing other scrptures together is the way the Holy Spirit teaches us.......

    1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
    1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
    1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

    There are many who when hearing revelation by the Spirit of God simply refuse to acknowledge it as truth. There will always be those who appose truth. The Father uses the Holy Spirit to teach his Children because no man knows the thoughts of a man except for the spirit that is in him, and no one knows the thoughts God except the Spirit of God, God has given to us the Holy Spirit so we can knows the thoughts of God. With out that we would not know his thoughts. The Father teaches us concepts and precepts of his Kingdom. they are only bits and pieces kinda like a jigsaw puzzle. Once we learn new truth we begin to compare these truths together as it is written here. but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. these puzzle pieces form an image in which we, his sons are able to get a grasp of the plans and purposes of God.

    1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
    1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
    1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
    1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

    As a young baby Christian we know very little of God plans and purposes for our lives. As the Father begins to teach us he always confirms what he teaches with His Word, and then the Holy Spirit bears witness to its truth. These concepts, and precepts causes us to connect truth together that forms an image we can see with the eyes of our heart. Eventually as we grow from a child to an Adult, and we begin to see more clearly his purpose, and plans. As an adult we are no longer looking through a glass darkly but are now seeing God face to face. But this all must start with God the Father, for he is our teacher, and he has our curriculum that has been custom designed for each of His children, according to what he has called each one to do.
     
  5. Evidently you seem to have missed the part in this post where I said God the Father AWAYS confirms what he teaches with His Word, in which the Holy Spirit bears witness to. You know, if you don't believe God speaks to people, then don't worry about it because God only speaks to those who do.
     
  6. But then of course the question must be.......How do you know that it was God who spoke to you?

    I did not miss any part of your comment. Your actual words were, "
    "The Word of God will never speak to us until the Father speaks. We do not go to the Word first, we go to the Word second".

    I simply do not agree with your comment. Many a man has uttered those words in a way to fleece the flock or to make it appear that they are more spiritual than everyone else.

    The Bible tells us in Acts 10:34.......
    "Then Peter opened his mouth and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons".

    The New King James Version translates "God is no respecter of persons" as "God shows no partiality.

    God also does not want us to show favoritism. James:2:9But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. says that "respect to persons" (KJV) or "partiality" (NKJV) is sin.

    Yes, I am aware that the context in view is that God offers salvation to every man, no matter what external circumstances, such as socioeconomic status or nationality, might apply to him. God does not offer salvation only to the Jew, just because he is a Jew, or only to the Gentile because he is a Gentile.

    That being said, we all can see that anyone who claims that God speaks to "him" audibly has sat himself up in a position of favoritism. If you can not see that, then there is not a lot I can say to you.
     
  7. No where did I say God speaks to me audibly, as he is a Spirit and only Spirit speaks to spirit. God does not speak to our heads or ears which is why Jesus said, "these people have ears, but they do not hear, they have eyes but they do not see" They all had eyes, and ears, and they all heard his words and saw what he did. He was not referring to their physical senses but their hearts capabilities that had become hardened.
     
  8. Dear CCW95A.....please accept my appology. When I read your very first post, I took you at your word and to me it seemed that you said God spoke to you while you were in a dream or vision.

    From post #1.......
    The Lord appeared to me in a vision while praying, and I asked him “what do you want me to do?”, He said, “I want you to teach my Word” I was not happy with that answer because number one I don't know anything about the Bible, except Jesus loves me yes I know for the Bible tells me so. Number two, I am a very shy, introverted person, and my command of the English language is not nonexistent. I told him “you have the wrong guy.” But I could tell I was not getting through to him in changing his mind. So, I did next best thing I could think of at that moment to try, and get the Lord to change his mind. I said, “OK, I'll do it, but only if you teach me yourself, face to face, and what ever you teach me will be the only words that will come out of my mouth.”.....The Lord agreed with that.............

    I guess what you actually said is not what you meant to say. So now we see that God taught you face to face so it must be my misunderstanding that He said something audible to you during your face to face meetings. NOW, you are saying that you saw God aren't you????? I do not want to put words into your mouth or misunderstan you. When you say God taught you FACE TO FACE, you then actually did see God, right? MY BAD!

    Now that we are clear I wonder if you would mind speaking and correcting some Bible verses for me?

    Exodus 33:20 ..........
    "There shall no man see me, and live. "

    John 1:18..................
    "No man hath seen God at any time. "
    John 6:46 .................
    Not that any man hath seen the Father.

    Colossians 1:15 ........
    "The invisible God "
    1 Timothy 1:17 .........
    "Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. "
    1 Timothy 6:16
    "Whom no man hath seen nor can see."
    1 John 4:12
    "No man hath seen God at any time. "
     
  9. CCw95A - what you are attempting to teach contradicts scripture.
    Our Lord stated rather plainly that the Holy Spirit would be the source of enlightenment to faithful Christians.

    from John 16
    12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. 15 All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.”
     
  10. Glomung, greetings. Did you notice that when the Holy Spirit comes he will not speak on his own? He will only speak what he hears. Who do you think he is hearing from? Jesus hears from the Father, and then speaks what he hears, Then the Holy Spirit hears from Jesus and then speaks to us. You can not have one of the God head speak with out the others also speaking. Every thing begins with the Father, then the Word, then the Holy Spirit. There always has to have three witness's to every truth.
     
  11. Major, do you know what the purpose of light is for? Light, which God is, gives life, but not only does light give life, it also gives vision. It is exactly as physical light in which God created for man to study so he can get a understanding of how God is in the spiritual world and to know his eternal power. (Rom 1:20) When God reveals his Word God is actually revealing him self, because God is the Word. His Word gives light and life. Everything that makes things visible is light.

    Eph 5:13 But when anything is exposed and reproved by the light, it is made visible and clear; and where everything is visible and clear there is light. (AMP)

    Jesus promised.....

    Joh 14:21 The person who has My commands and keeps them is the one who [really] loves Me; and whoever [really] loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I [too] will love him and will show (reveal, manifest) Myself to him. [I will let Myself be clearly seen by him and make Myself real to him.] (AMP)

    Did Jesus lie when said these things? Jesus always reveals and manifest himself to those who love him. If we have not seen him, then we are not truly loving him.

    The Apostle Paul prayed everyday constantly to God that he would give unto the Church the Spirit of Wisdom, and revelation in the knowledge of him by having the eyes of their heart enlightened so they might see the hope of his calling....
    What is our hope? Jesus Christ is our hope of Glory.

    Eph 1:15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
    Eph 1:16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
    Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
    Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

    You see the word "Know"? it means "to see" What happens when your eyes are illuminated? You see something!!! Our eyes do not function without light as you should already know this.

    1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
    1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
    1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

    All born again Christians have the capacity to see Jesus. That is a normal activity, it is when we do not see him then something is wrong, or we have not yet learned how faith works. Faith always sees the invisible. Hope on the other hand does not see the invisible, and that is where the problem is. Hope that is seen is not hope, why does a man hope for that which he already sees? (Romans 8:24-25) The Church today does not have a hope problem it has a faith problem!!! The Church is blind and can not see its savior because that requires faith, not hope. Hope can be seen, but it requires faith to see it. Once hope is seen that person is no longer hoping, because, why does a man hope for what he already sees? the answer is he doesn't. (Romans 8:24). It was never intended by God for the Church to hope their entire life away without seeing their hope of Glory!!! When hope is never seen or delayed it causes that person to become sick of heart to where they just give up on ever experiencing what God has for them today.

    Pro 13:12 Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life.

    The word, "deferred" means, "to postpone, to be delayed"

    Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
    Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

    Why would it be so important that the Church see Jesus? It would be the same reason why Jesus would see us his Church.
    Have you ever contemplated how the Son God endured the cross? What was it that gave him strength to stay his course. The Bible tells us how Jesus did that. It was because of the joy that was set before him that he was able to endure his cross. What was his joy that he was fixed upon?

    Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

    We his Church was Jesus's joy. He saw you, and me. That was his joy that gave him strength to endure, and overcome the cross.
    If this is how Jesus overcame, how do you think we are to overcome?

    Heb 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
    Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

    All born again Christians should be seeing Jesus crowned with Glory and honor!!!!

    The only way this world will or can be changed is by the bride of Christ where God himself dwells is seeing something much better what we have today. The only time God's almighty is only working for us, the Church is when we are not looking at the things seen, but the the things unseen!!!!!!!!

    2Co 4:17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;
    2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

    If you are not seeing the invisible Kingdom of God then you are not participating in effecting its change from what it is now to his Kingdom come his will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.

    As for man not seeing God who is invisible, that is because we are not to look at the things seen, but at the unseen where God lives, and dwells in His Glory. I have never seen anything super natural in my life with my physical eyes. It was not created to see these things, only the rebirth human spirit with all of it spiritual senses are able to. I am not trying to see any external Glory of God in which no man can approach, because I do not have to as the Church of God is already dwelling inside this Glory looking out!!!!!!!

    Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
    Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
    Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

    There are all kinds of people who will try and make accusations about those who live and dwell in God's Kingdom, because they do not have a clue about it as their understanding has come only by philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
     
  12. Did you notice that when the Holy Spirit comes he will not speak on his own?

    That's all fine and dandy, but what you claim still contradicts scripture. You claim that the Father speaks to you directly, that claim is not supported by scripture, unless you happen to be one of the OT prophets, which I doubt.
     
  13. #13 CCW95A, May 21, 2014
    Last edited: May 21, 2014
    Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

    Here is scripture that you say is wrong. How many will be taught by God? How does he do this? (1) you hear the Father, (2) he teaches you something, (3) then you go to the Word of God (Jesus)

    What part of this is hard to understand?
     
  14. I agree with you my friend.
     
  15. Wow. That was a lot of work. I bet you are tired!

    It is too bad that none of the verses you posted address your claim of talking directly to God or being able to visit with Him face to face as you claimed. You and I are not going to be able to agree with your comments I am afraid.

    Again, just so that there are no misunderstandings, here are you exact words..................

    From post #1.......
    The Lord appeared to me in a vision while praying, and I asked him “what do you want me to do?”, He said, “I want you to teach my Word” I was not happy with that answer because number one I don't know anything about the Bible, except Jesus loves me yes I know for the Bible tells me so. Number two, I am a very shy, introverted person, and my command of the English language is not nonexistent. I told him “you have the wrong guy.” But I could tell I was not getting through to him in changing his mind. So, I did next best thing I could think of at that moment to try, and get the Lord to change his mind. I said, “OK, I'll do it, but only if you teach me yourself, face to face, and what ever you teach me will be the only words that will come out of my mouth.”.....The Lord agreed with that.............


    What you posted is that God spoke audible to you.
    Then you said that you saw Him and he taught you FACE to FACE.

    I am sure that just like MichaelH who is a sold out Charismatic Pentecostal, so then it appears are you. You apparently come here with an agenda, not to expound upon the World of God and the goodness He bless us with but your agenda.

    You believe MORE in dreams, visions and emotions than you do the Word of God. I do not want to make an enemy of you as that is not my purpose in life. That being said allow me to say to you my friend that you are sincerely wrong and very misguided in your opinions. You are very much anti-Scriptures. Actually you have fallen for the devils best trick. You are working hard to make the Scriptures say what YOU think instead of understanding the Scriptures as they are written.

    God knows that I am not an expert on these things but there are a lot of people on this web site who are and Glomung would be one of those people. They will concern with me I think that you are simply just flat wrong.

    You did not see God!
    You did not talk with God face to face!
    You are not a prophet!

    Before you argue that please take notice that I did not say that........God said those words in HIs Bible.

    You seem to be a man with visions of grandeur who wants all of us to look upon you as an exalted believer who God Himself has met with and communicated with FACE to FACE no matter what the Bible says otherwise. You appear to be wanting the attention of men because you are claiming something that God Himself has said is impossible to happen. So then, who do we believe????
    You or the Word of God.

    For you personally that is no problem because you have already said that w should consider the written Word of God after we communicate with the Father face to face.

    If it was a dream as you contend, I suggest that you consider what you ate or the meds that you take. I have already posted for you several Bible verses that declare man has not seen the invisible God and that my friend applies to you as well.

    I hope you do not think I am being harsh or un-friendly or un-Christian in my comments to you or that I am making a personal attack on you. I AM NOT DOING ANY OF THAT. It was YOU who brought your comments and opinion to an open forum for all of us to read and comment on which is what I have one. I am just being honest in the hopes that it might awaken you to the glorious written Word of God which is the power of God unto salvation.
     
  16. Major, I am not offended by any of your comments or beliefs you hold to be true. If you have never heard God the Father or even believe God speaks to his children that is your choice. Your growth as a Christian is limited to what you believe. You can not experience God beyond your faith. If you believe that you will not see Jesus or hear his voice until after you die, then that is exactly what you are going to get. What I believe is I already died with Christ and God has already raised me up to sit with him in Heavenly places sitting with him in Christ on the right hand of God. I actually believe this. You see brother this is our only work, which is to believe the truth not logically analyze it or reason it out because the human mind can not receive the things taught by the Holy neither can he know them for they are spiritually decerned.
     
  17. Not so!
    Christ describes this "drawing" process from verses 43-44 where He started. My dear brother.....It is accomplished through the Bible.
    When a man hears and learns he comes to the Father. Salvation is impossible apart from hearing the Word of God. It is through this preaching that God draws people to Himself as seen in Isa. 54:13. The learning does not mean complete knowledge of the Father because that is only for the Son.
     
  18. Major, where does the Word come from? from whose mouth does it flow out of? You can not have any spoken Word of unless the Father speaks it first, which in turn The Word speaks as Jesus taught that he only spoke what he heard his Father say, in which the Holy only speaks what he hears from Jesus. It is really really simple to understand. Why take something easy and make it hard?
     
  19. Of course, Positionally, you are correct. I also believe that I died with Christ and raised with Him and now sit in heaven because that is exactly what the Word of God tells us.

    Eph 2:4
    "But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ by grace you have been saved, and raised us up together, and had us seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus."

    Now then, it’s now easy to understand how we can be seated in heavenly places with Christ, or rather in Christ, while existing here in the natural realm as well. Since Christ is seated in Heaven and we are one with Him and the Father, then we are seated in heavenly places as well. That is POSITIONAL SACTIFICATION.

    Christ made us alive SPIRITUALLY by imparting His life in us. That is what is meant by the phrase NEW BIRTH!
    With Christ neans resurrection....His was literal, ours is spiritual. What God did for Christ He also did for us.

    But PRACTICAL SACTIFICATION tells us that our feet are firmly planted on the earth.
     
  20. Position, does not that mean this is where you are? Is it just a play on words and not reality? The Word does not lie. If the Word says this is where you are, than that is where you are, and it makes no difference what your physical body is telling you. You have a choice to either believe what the Word said or what your physical senses say. Notice, he did not say he is waiting for you to be sanctified, but even when we were still in our sins, he raised us up and made us sit together in Heavenly places in Christ.
     

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