So what if millions of people believe a lot of things, people will believe anything. What makes people willing believe and to follow Hitler, or Darwin? Why did some people love Stalin? And I do not have to "be sure" in the sense that "Faith" real faith is not based upon mans logic or wisdom, but just the opposite. Faith demands a fear of God, an admission of our inability to understand, an admission of our weaknesses. Then based upon mans lack, God gives wisdom and understanding in the truth. I will be honest tubby, some seem to think that they can reason with you unto "faith" on this forum. I have ministered in the jails and prisons for years and know that sometimes to save a soul you must defeat the pride that holds that soul in bondage to Satan. I could break you in just a few post if the mods would allow it, and then you might be in a position to receive the truth at some point?
Learning Genesis
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Be my guest. You can do it here or by PM. I would prefer it on open forum though.
You still didn't REALLY answer my question though did you?
I did answer your question, its a matter of faith and the wisdom that comes at the fear of God. Im not even allowed to challenge the extreme ignorance of the "big bang" past a certain point. I don't think I could on this open forum bring you to a place of repentance? But be glad to start a conversation with you about your coming judgment in private.
Why not do it on open forum? I don't have a problem with people witnessing you bring me to repentance. Would be such a good show for everyone surely?
And no, you didn't answer my question, certainly not in a way that doesn't preclude having faith in the first place.
And no, you didn't answer my question, certainly not in a way that doesn't preclude having faith in the first place.
So for everyones information Mitspa has started my conversion by PM. I do reserve the right to comment on this matter on this thread if nobody has a problem with that.
That's the point, its a matter of faith and that coming from the heart and not the mind. No one who has come to real faith comes apart from first the fear of God, which you seem to have none of?
Well, there you go!
Just so I can get a handle on this point, do any of you think that your particular demographic played a part in your chosen faith?
Upbringing can be a factor but in many cases it is the reverse as children can rebel against their parents beliefs.
Yes, I realise that upbringing is no doubt a factor and it appears to be have a huge influence.
Children rebelling is another matter as they can rebel both ways, they must be subject to an external influence to rebel in whatever direction that may be.
One thought that has come out of this thread is that faith is against reason or must be "unreasonable" in order to be faith. although many Christians may hold this view, its not one that I personally adhere to. However, although I consider my faith to not be "unreasonable" I don't necessarily (or in fact seldomly) reason it from science. The most significant problem is that scientific reductionism can only take you so far. A lot of real life believing is simply "best guess" from experiential evidence.
MichaelH
Inactive
so what page are you on in Genesis?
Not very far, sorry. Been a bit busy recently so not had much time for it but I'll get back to it.
I think I will discontinue my private conversation with Mitspa after he offered to 'break' me.
His last message was just littered with insults really, to him I am sad, lonely, have nobody who loves me, judging others etc.. There was mention of me believing 'something came from nothing' again. In fact the whole tone of the conversation was a bit distasteful in my eyes so Mitspa, you can stop now please. Unless you want to try and 'break' me by some other means of course.
Ok, I'm sorry that that conversation never went anywhere constructive.
What are your thoughts so far on Genesis?
Of course it does. BUT.....as one grows older in age and wisdom and knowledge, we are then able to make our own choices on the information we have on hand.
One born to a Jewish family will sooner or later hear the words Jesus, Christ...Messiah etc. they have the ability to ask, get answers and formulate the truth based on the information they have.
My experience in missionary trips to Central America, Africa and also Viet Nam is that when lost people come face to face with their sin and realize the ramifications of that sin, and then there is ONE who has paid the price for their sin, salvation then become very easy. Those people now have MORE information than they grew up with and that information then demands a decision from them.
Josh McDowell has written a wonderful book that address this question we are discussing...."Evidence That Demand A Verdict".
Did you approach the effort as a contest between him and you with the prize being whether or not you accepted Christ?
To be totally honest, I have no idea how old the earth is, did man live with dinosaurs, the earth is 5 billion years old or if T-Rex was a scavenger or a hunter. Don't know and don't care. Evolution can not prove our existence and neither can Creation. They are both accepted by faith and neither one can be repeated.
All of that is simply a smoke screen to get your eyes of Jesus Christ! It causes you and others to question our existence by denying the presence of a God who directed Creation as opposed to evolution which we all know is actually a great big MISTAKE that could not have happened....but did.
The only thing in your life and my life, everyone's life is the answer to this one question.
"Whom do YOU say that Jesus Christ is".
Matthew 16:15-16 Jesus asks Peter who people thought He was. Peter said THEY say you are John the Baptist, some Elijah, some Jeremiah but most say that you are one of the prophets.
That is when Jesus made it personal. He looked Peter in the eye and asked him........
" HE SAITH TO PETER; BUT WHOM SAY YE THAT I AM".
Peter then said....THOU ART THE CHRIST THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD".
Well there it is Mr. Tubby. Pull away the curtain of science, evolution, philosophy, and questions of wanting to know.
The question is and always has been....."Whom do YOU say that the Christ is"????
HisManySongs
Passed on, February 28, 2022
@Mitspa - care to comment and present your side?
Not at all, I approached it open-minded. Mitspa asked me questions which I answered truthfully, it then quickly descended into a conversation without purpose.
It was clearly going to be difficult considering that my current worldview is non-belief in gods and this resulted in frustration for Mitspa.
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