People who misunderstood God's word took the wrong meaning about heliocentricity. They believed that earth was the center of the universe. In case you missed it - the sun is not the center of the universe either. Millions can be wrong about the truth - they don't believe in God. I forgot your point, Tubby. All any Christian can claim is that they know God - not just believe because God is proven in their eyes and heart. They can tell you how to get there but they can't do your work for you.
Learning Genesis
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People who misunderstood God's word took the wrong meaning about heliocentricity. They believed that earth was the center of the universe. In case you missed it - the sun is not the center of the universe either. Millions can be wrong about the truth - they don't believe in God. I forgot your point, Tubby. All any Christian can claim is that they know God - not just believe because God is proven in their eyes and heart. They can tell you how to get there but they can't do your work for you.
Yes tubby people can believe the most impossible things, what does that prove or disprove? Nothing really, but maybe that men are made to believe in unseen and unreasonable things?
Isaiah 1:18a (KJV)
"Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD:..."
God welcomes the opportunity to explain anything to an open heart to the truth.
Sorry Tubby thats just the brainwashing you have been sold. First, many people from as early as the 6th century B.C. believed the earth wa round...some believed all the planets (earth being one of them) went around the Sun...but this response doe not mean anything scientists use to beleive Light was a static medium (like the ether theory) and not until Christensen was the movement of light shown to be true even though the Bible had said for 2000 years that light travels a path. Science believed at one time that all you could do to transverse the ocean (shortest path being a straight line) that all one had to do was sail straight toward your destination. Sometimes ships were caught in the doldrums (of the equator for those who do not know) and many lives were lost until a Bible believing scientist named Maurey, reading the Psalms, realized there were paths through the seas. He went on to chart these (saving millions in lost goods and lost souls) and now we now following the currents and heeding the winds (which were thought by many to blow in straight intersecting lines of force)...this man is truly the father of modern oceanography...but how could some ancients 3,000 years ago who had never sailed the oce3ans have known this truth? You mean landlubber King David made it up and got lucky?
The point is that yes in the dark ages the Earth centric and Sun centric forces ruled the flat-worlder's mentality but that does not prove your premise. It isn't because millions "believe" or mentally assent to something that makes it true, it is because in those millions there are those who really have encountered this being in one form or another and experienced personally what He says He would be and do. You know your great-great-great grandmother really existed (one had to or you would not be here) but you cannot probably "prove" her but because of the experience passed down (the real actual encounters and relationship with this being) and the proofs (maybe articles of clothing, stories about her, and so on) you KNOW she was real.
So it is with this God. You cannot find Him with a telescope or a microscope (you cannot find "beauty" either) but He is there and you will meet Him one day. Whether you believe it or not, and mere belief, being your point for not accepting it, does not make it any less real.
I suppose where I was heading is that of all the gods we have ever worshipped, including several monotheistic based ones, your god is put to me as the one true god simply by him being the most popular one right now. If I changed my perspective at some time and was convinced that there was a god, would I choose your god Yahweh just because he has the most following right now?
Why choose this god instead of worshipping Allah or the god of Bahá'í? All followed by large monotheistic groups that pronounce their god as the only god. If I had to pick one, what would be my reasoning behind that choice and how would I know I had the right one?
It would be pretty disheartening to find I devoted my life giving myself to a god and then when I die, find out I got the wrong one all the time, and it had been wasted effort.
The thread is going a bit off topic but I don't mind if everyone is happy. When I get round to my next bit of Genesis I'm sure HMS and others will do their continued best to answer.
What are the Psalms that describe the routes to take across the oceans?
I never said the Bible describes the routes to take it merely says that there are paths....this was what led Maurey
Psalm 8
What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:
7 All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field;
8 The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas.
Though the Psalm speaks of the dominion God delegated to man over the things on the earth, the Spirit casually makes mention of paths when no man knew they were there. Matthew Maurey found them (then later in the 1960’s with the aid of sophisticated radiographic and photographic equipment we actually filmed literal paths of rippled sand on the ocean floors that correspond to those currents now traveled in what has become known as the shipping lanes).
In another place, the Book of Job 38:16, literally thousands of years before the fact was validated by science, God told us about “springs“, and “recesses“ (lit. trenches) that were in the bottom of the Ocean? Clearly no one had ever been down there (searching them out crushed the Thresher).
Do you realize that this was not even discovered as a scientific fact until 1873, and only recently have we been able to actually get down deep enough into these trenches to film these springs? Knowledge of this was not possible to people in Job’s time unless you believe in Job Cousteau or again a lucky guess.
Now no one here would claim the Bible is supposed to be a science book. In fact it should not be assumed the Bible contains ALL truth but what it does contain is true (I have painstakingly done much homework). Even when Peter lied, his lie was not the truth but it was true that he lied. This and many other things cannot possibly have been known to any person at the time they are stated as a fact.
In His love
brother Paul
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In his diary Christopher Columbus wrote, “It was the Lord who put it into my mind (I could feel His hand upon me), the fact that it would be possible to sail from here to the Indies. All who heard of my project rejected it with laughter, ridiculing me. There is no question that the inspiration was from the Holy Spirit, because He comforted me with rays of marvelous inspiration from the Holy Scriptures…I am a most noteworthy sinner, but I have cried out to the Lord for grace and mercy, and they have covered me completely. I have found the sweetest consolation since I made it my whole purpose to enjoy His marvelous Presence.”
“For the execution of the voyage to the Indies, I did not make use of intelligence, mathematics, or maps. It is simply the fulfillment of what Isaiah had prophesied…”
Thank GOd Christopher was a believer...we might not even be here...
“For the execution of the voyage to the Indies, I did not make use of intelligence, mathematics, or maps. It is simply the fulfillment of what Isaiah had prophesied…”
Thank GOd Christopher was a believer...we might not even be here...
You fail to mention that Christopher was mistaken in the destination he originally set out for and where he actually landed.
I would be hesitant in claiming that as divine intervention, considering he ended up in the wrong continent.
MichaelH
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Sadly, that is a true statement. The Majority are almost always wrong.
Was looking at some top companies money wise. Both companies have the worse consumer ratings out of all the rest.
Walmart according to the rating is the worse store on the planet, but the most busy and makes the most money.
Some cheap airline overseas, constant complaints, lowest rated for Satisfaction but the most busy and profitable.
People seldom do what they say they believe. The Majority is almost always wrong.
He didn't even know there was one there...but he proved you would not fall off the edge of flat-world...the point was that believers in the God of the Bible have contributed much of the very foundation you rest on
Copernicus (Astronomy), Kepler (Cosmology), or Boyle (Chemistry), Pascal (Math), Steno (Anatomy), Faraday (Light), Pascal (Mathematics), Lord Kelvin (Thermodynamics), Maxwell (electro-magnetism, foundation of Quantum Physics), Mendel (Genetic inheritance), Pastuer (Bacteriology), Tesla and Marconi (Telegraph and Radio), Edison (Telephone and Lighting), Muller (Biological Research) and so many more...IMO it was their faith that God had made the Universe and everything in it able to be understood and replete with laws and unseen levels of orderliness and complexity that drove these men...
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Oh good point.. No I wasn't anywhere near Christians because I was not interested and indifferent.
Wow, I ploughed through this whole thread to get to page 10 and what a journey around the mulbery bush it has been.
I noticed that there were a few posts here that were way over the top, implying that you can't understand Christianity unless you are fluent in ancient Hebrew. That would rule out 99% of Christians if that were true.
What did we conclude about Genesis? That they were literal days or that each day represented a thousand years?
I noticed that there were a few posts here that were way over the top, implying that you can't understand Christianity unless you are fluent in ancient Hebrew. That would rule out 99% of Christians if that were true.
What did we conclude about Genesis? That they were literal days or that each day represented a thousand years?
I agree about the Mulberry bush but I would say that the segueway was legitimate. I, for one, do not wish to waste time and energy on one who's mind is made up - but I will go with possibility (posted on the dinosaur thread).
It got lost but my understanding is that it did not rain before the flood but rather it "misted". I wondered about this when I saw it on another thread and think, if true, the world was truly a different place back at the beginning.
I was drinking when reading MichaelH's post about the begats and spit across the room, I was laughing so hard.
It got lost but my understanding is that it did not rain before the flood but rather it "misted". I wondered about this when I saw it on another thread and think, if true, the world was truly a different place back at the beginning.
I was drinking when reading MichaelH's post about the begats and spit across the room, I was laughing so hard.
MichaelH
Inactive
And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
(Gen 1:16-19)
Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
God tells us what he called a day a day, and what made it a day. Evening to morning God called a day. These days were determined by the cycle of Night time and day time.
1 Day = 24 hours.
Or sun up, to sun down. God said, and called it that.
In Peter, He said 1 day is as a thousand years to the Lord. Peter did not say God was confused on what He called a day. Peter was also talking about end time Judgement and His key unlocks another verse not related to Genesis.
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
(2Pe 3:8)
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
These are Keys to something else, they don't denote God does not understand what a day is, God told us a day is from morning until evening.
Tubby you can choose whatever God you like, or can believe whatever you like? No Christian on this forum has come to you and attempted to force a belief system upon you. In fact "you" have come into a group of Christians and attempted to force your views upon us. So again you can believe your religion (of evolution) and I am very happy mine. But who cares about these other gods? Go to there forum and ridicule them, and make fun of their beliefs. And you continue to insult and that's all your here for. I would that that you would find a better hobby, don't you have better things to do than insult a god a you don't think is real? Think about that.
Well millions of people care about 'other' gods, that's what interests me. If 1 billion people believe their god is the true god and another 1 billion people believe that a different god is the true god then if there is only 1 god, by definition a billion of them are wrong. And I'm not saying you are wrong Mitspa, just wondering how you can be sure.
It just seems too subjective to me if I think about it on a global scale that's all. I'm not ridiculing gods as such, just wondering what are the factors that persuade someone to choose one over the other? Is it geography, education, peers, parents?
HisManySongs
Passed on, February 28, 2022
The word translated as day is only used for a literal 24 hour day.
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