Learning Genesis Take 2

[calvin]

Gen 8:1 Then God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the animals that were with him in the ark. And God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters subsided. 2 The fountains of the deep and the windows of heaven were also stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained. 3 And the waters receded continually from the earth. At the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters decreased. 4 Then the ark rested in the seventh month, the seventeenth day of the month, on the mountains of Ararat. 5 And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month. In the tenth month, on the first day of the month, the tops of the mountains were seen.

Why did God 'remember' at this point? He instructed Noah to build his ark and gather animals to save them and then flooded the Earth to destroy everything. What was he doing that would make him forget about this?

Is that a statement about the extent of your powers of reasoning Tubby Tubby, or are you being deliberately silly?
Even today in lower downtown UK, to remember someone is to have regard for their situation....but you knew that already.

 

[Abdicate]

I'm wondering where your pastor friend gets his info from. There is zilch evidence that there had been no rain prior to the flood.
When Adam was placed in the garden at Eden, there had at that time been no rain.......granted. But after that??
When the Lord told Noah that He was going to send rain, did he have to sit Noah down and give him a quick informational tutorial on meteorology?
Gen 7:4 For in seven days I will send rain on the earth forty days and forty nights, and every living thing that I have made I will blot out from the face of the ground."
" Yes OK Lord, shall do.....ahh by the way, what is rain?
I'm sure Noah knew what rain was and so also no doubt those who might have asked him why he was building an ark on dry ground.
The fact that with Noah, the curse was lifted::

Gen 5:28 When Lamech had lived 182 years, he fathered a son
Gen 5:29 and called his name Noah, saying, "Out of the ground that the LORD has cursed, this one shall bring us relief from our work and from the painful toil of our hands."

Is no proof that there had been no rain until then,,,indeed Lamech foresaw that the lifting of the curse would come from "out of the ground....." not out of the sky. Perhaps the breaking out of the fountains of the deep.......just wondering.

Gen 2:5-6 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

 

[calvin]

Yes indeed but can you calculate the number of years between when Adam was placed in the garden at Eden and the time when the Lord God caused it to rain on Noah's generation? More to the point, can you cite a scripture that tells us that it continued to 'not rain' until God sent the rains that caused the flood?? I know perfectly well that you can not, but I ask in the somewhat vain hope that you will realize that you do not know it all. Or to spell it out for you, Gen 2:5,6 is talking about the whether situation at Eden and it is talking in past tense. There is no mention of a continuing lack of rain until the flood. Do you know better that the word of God??

 

[calvin]

Gen 8:6 So it came to pass, at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made. 7 Then he sent out a raven, which kept going to and fro until the waters had dried up from the earth.

This scripture is not intended to be sequential then? We've got through 150 days and now back to 40 days when he sends the Raven out.

Why would you think that?? What is wrong with 150 days elapsing while the Earth was purged of all unprotected land dependent animal life?
After the 150 days, the ark grounded. after a further 40 days, Noah released the raven. That seems simple and straight forward enough. Seems like a very believable account. The Ark would have had a sizable draft, so it is reasonable that the Ark would be grounded quite a few days before land actually appeared above water level. It is also believable that the raven would not return being a less companionable bird than are doves. As for the Olive leaf...not sure. It is well within the bounds of possibility that many trees would survive the flood, and I have no idea how long it would take a waterlogged tree to recover and sport some nice healthy leaves again. Nothing was said about destroying plants was there? Many plants no doubt did die, but there is no suggestion of total removal of any plant species or type or genus. You have been diligently studying Genesis and I'm sure you don't need me to point out the obvious.

 

[calvin]

Drat that 25minute edit window. Post #43 whould of course read weather not whether. That is where spell checkers fail miserably

 

[Abdicate]

Yes indeed but can you calculate the number of years between when Adam was placed in the garden at Eden and the time when the Lord God caused it to rain on Noah's generation? More to the point, can you cite a scripture that tells us that it continued to 'not rain' until God sent the rains that caused the flood?? I know perfectly well that you can not, but I ask in the somewhat vain hope that you will realize that you do not know it all. Or to spell it out for you, Gen 2:5,6 is talking about the whether situation at Eden and it is talking in past tense. There is no mention of a continuing lack of rain until the flood. Do you know better that the word of God??

Show me scripture that says otherwise. And you say Tubby can't reason.

 

[gonefishing]

@calvin
I did some other research about the 'windows of heaven' idea from my friend. Not to beat a dead horse but I can't remember the book he used as a source. It's referred to as a water vapor canopy, similar to what Venus has today. Ice particles surrounding the planet acting as a solar shield. Like I said earlier, take it or leave it, I'm not supporting or defending, I just found it interesting.

 

[Brother Paul]

Gen 8:1 Then God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the animals that were with him in the ark. And God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters subsided. 2 The fountains of the deep and the windows of heaven were also stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained. 3 And the waters receded continually from the earth. At the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters decreased. 4 Then the ark rested in the seventh month, the seventeenth day of the month, on the mountains of Ararat. 5 And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month. In the tenth month, on the first day of the month, the tops of the mountains were seen.

Why did God 'remember' at this point? He instructed Noah to build his ark and gather animals to save them and then flooded the Earth to destroy everything. What was he doing that would make him forget about this?

To remember "zakar" is to call to mind...this does not mean He forgot anything but now that the process was reaching its zenith He was bringing Noah and the family back to mind or focus or to place attention on them at this time...

 

[Brother Paul]

Gen 8:6 So it came to pass, at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made. 7 Then he sent out a raven, which kept going to and fro until the waters had dried up from the earth.

This scripture is not intended to be sequential then? We've got through 150 days and now back to 40 days when he sends the Raven out.

These forty days are part of the total 150 days

 

[Brother Paul]

Gen 8:8 He also sent out from himself a dove, to see if the waters had receded from the face of the ground. 9 But the dove found no resting place for the sole of her foot, and she returned into the ark to him, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth. So he put out his hand and took her, and drew her into the ark to himself. 10 And he waited yet another seven days, and again he sent the dove out from the ark. 11 Then the dove came to him in the evening, and behold, a freshly plucked olive leaf was in her mouth; and Noah knew that the waters had receded from the earth. 12 So he waited yet another seven days and sent out the dove, which did not return again to him anymore.

Ok so the dove was a backup test for the Raven. How did an Olive tree grow in this short period of time?

The olive tree was never totally destroyed, submerged for a while but still had greenery on it...all God said He was going to destroy was everything that had the breath of life in it "everything" was not destroyed...olive trees do not have "Nephesh"...

 

[calvin]

@calvin
I did some other research about the 'windows of heaven' idea from my friend. Not to beat a dead horse but I can't remember the book he used as a source. It's referred to as a water vapor canopy, similar to what Venus has today. Ice particles surrounding the planet acting as a solar shield. Like I said earlier, take it or leave it, I'm not supporting or defending, I just found it interesting.

I'm not taking issue with the water (ice) canopy as such, I was just curious about the lack of rain idea. And I realize you were just mentioning in passing so to speak. I thought perhaps you might ask your friend for more info is all.

 

[calvin]

Show me scripture that says otherwise. And you say Tubby can't reason.

I did!!!
If you want to pursue this ridiculous line of discussion.......PM me.

 

[gonefishing]

 

[calvin]

Gen 8:13 In the six hundred and first year, in the first month, the first day of the month, the waters were dried from off the earth. And Noah removed the covering of the ark and looked, and behold, the face of the ground was dry.
Gen 8:14 In the second month, on the twenty-seventh day of the month, the earth had dried out.
Gen 8:15 Then God said to Noah,
Gen 8:16 "Go out from the ark, you and your wife, and your sons and your sons' wives with you.
So Noah and the rest of the passengers -1 raven and 1 dove spent around 12 months and 10 days on the Ark.
Truly a long time, much regeneration of vegetation could have taken place while the Ark's passengers waited for their disembarkation orders.

 

[calvin]

Gen 8:17 Bring out with you every living thing that is with you of all flesh—birds and animals and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth—that they may swarm on the earth, and be fruitful and multiply on the earth."
Gen 8:18 So Noah went out, and his sons and his wife and his sons' wives with him.
Gen 8:19 Every beast, every creeping thing, and every bird, everything that moves on the earth, went out by families from the ark.
Gen 8:20 Then Noah built an altar to the LORD and took some of every clean animal and some of every clean bird and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
Gen 8:21 And when the LORD smelled the pleasing aroma, the LORD said in his heart, "I will never again curse the ground because of man, for the intention of man's heart is evil from his youth. Neither will I ever again strike down every living creature as I have done.
Gen 8:22 While the earth remains, seedtime and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night, shall not cease."

Just as well Noah took seven pairs of clean animals or there would have been an awkward moment back there.
So the plan and purpose of the Lord God can be seen to be unfolding.
We see the prophetic insight of Noah's dad (Gen 5:29) come to fruition with the lifting of the cursing of the ground and the crops.
This is an important mile stone in God's plan of redemption of fallen mankind.
The plan continues to unfold.

 

[gonefishing]

Gen 8:17 Bring out with you every living thing that is with you of all flesh—birds and animals and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth—that they may swarm on the earth, and be fruitful and multiply on the earth."
Gen 8:18 So Noah went out, and his sons and his wife and his sons' wives with him.
Gen 8:19 Every beast, every creeping thing, and every bird, everything that moves on the earth, went out by families from the ark.
Gen 8:20 Then Noah built an altar to the LORD and took some of every clean animal and some of every clean bird and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
Gen 8:21 And when the LORD smelled the pleasing aroma, the LORD said in his heart, "I will never again curse the ground because of man, for the intention of man's heart is evil from his youth. Neither will I ever again strike down every living creature as I have done.
Gen 8:22 While the earth remains, seedtime and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night, shall not cease."

Just as well Noah took seven pairs of clean animals or there would have been an awkward moment back there.
So the plan and purpose of the Lord God can be seen to be unfolding.
We see the prophetic insight of Noah's dad (Gen 5:29) come to fruition with the lifting of the cursing of the ground and the crops.
This is an important mile stone in God's plan of redemption of fallen mankind.
The plan continues to unfold.

I missed Gen5:29. The Bible is so cool.

 

[Abdicate]

I missed Gen5:29. The Bible is so cool.

If the ground is no longer cursed, then why the thorns and thistles from the original curse? And if there's no cures, then why this verse thousands of years later?

Revelation 22:3 (KJV)
And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

 

[Major]

Why would you think that?? What is wrong with 150 days elapsing while the Earth was purged of all unprotected land dependent animal life?
After the 150 days, the ark grounded. after a further 40 days, Noah released the raven. That seems simple and straight forward enough. Seems like a very believable account. The Ark would have had a sizable draft, so it is reasonable that the Ark would be grounded quite a few days before land actually appeared above water level. It is also believable that the raven would not return being a less companionable bird than are doves. As for the Olive leaf...not sure. It is well within the bounds of possibility that many trees would survive the flood, and I have no idea how long it would take a waterlogged tree to recover and sport some nice healthy leaves again. Nothing was said about destroying plants was there? Many plants no doubt did die, but there is no suggestion of total removal of any plant species or type or genus. You have been diligently studying Genesis and I'm sure you don't need me to point out the obvious.

Well said!

 

[calvin]

Ohh Tubby Tubby, Tubby Tubby, wherefore art thou Tubby Tubby?
This is your thread and I'm trying to keep it alive for you.
Have you no questions or comment?
May I be presumptuous enough to forge ahead?

 

[calvin]

Or, are you done with it??