Discussion in 'Thoughts for Today' started by SueJLove, May 18, 2015.

  1. “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:

    These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation. I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth." ~ Revelation 3:14-16​

    This song is based off of the letter to the church at Laodicea, as recorded in the Bible, in the book of Revelation, chapter 3, verses 14-22. This is a description of a church that is lukewarm, and God/Jesus is calling out to them to hear what he is saying to them about their spiritual condition, to open their hearts' doors to renewed fellowship with him via repentance, and to commit their lives to Jesus Christ in passionate obedience. I believe the Lord Jesus is still extending this call to today's "Laodicea" church, i.e. the church that is lukewarm today.

    Laodicea / An Original Work / April 29, 2011
    Based off of Revelation 3:14-22

    Laodicea, Laodicea, I’m calling you.
    You hear Me calling, you hear Me calling. I’m calling you.
    Will you not answer? Will you not answer? I’m calling you.
    If you but follow, if you but follow, I’ll answer you.
    Won’t you give Me your heart and your soul,
    So I can cleanse you and make you whole?
    Laodicea, Laodicea, I’m calling you.
    If you will answer, if you will answer, I’ll come to you.

    I stand at your door; I stand at your door. I’m knocking there.
    Will you not listen? Will you not listen, while I’ll be there?
    If you’ll but open, if you’ll but open your hearts to Me,
    I’ll come within you, I’ll come within you, you’ll sup with Me.
    Won’t you buy from Me some gold and salve?
    These costly treasures are yours to have.
    Laodicea, Laodicea, I’m calling you.
    If you will answer, if you will answer, I’ll come to you.

    Are you contented; are you contented to be lukewarm?
    Will you not have Me? Will you not have Me? Of this I warn –
    If you don’t hear Me, if you don’t hear Me, and so obey,
    I will spit you out; I will spit you out without delay.
    So why not heed this, your final call,
    And give to God absolutely all?
    Laodicea, Laodicea, I’m calling you.
    If you will answer, if you will answer, I’ll come to you.

    Cturtle likes this.
  2. It's hard to turn a church which has a love of the world and it's ways... A place where Zeal is discouraged... A place where the goal is milquetoast mild mannered men who will not stand up for anything.... Beat down anything that might get them unfavorable attention, hurt their reputation, or bring the ire of the authorities against them.... Sound familiar?

    One thing we gotta be pretty careful of.. The call to Laeodecia was NOT a corporate call.. Jesus was NOT calling to save the "Church of Laeodecia" - Jesus declares that he is OUTSIDE the church.... which is pretty darned scary considering "Where two or three are gathered in my name - I will be in the midst of them".... (Matt 18:20)

    When you read the call - it's to THE ONE... The invitation is to THE ONE... but its yet more scary than the promise to the ONE overcomer in Sardis (Rev 3:5) because this is NOT a promise to the one ALREADY following - it's a promise to the one who hasn't heard yet - but has the willing heart to listen... That one has NOT even overcome yet, it's based on being WILLING to hear the Gospel... Jesus will go in and sup with him - not with the church....

    Literally - Jesus is the one doing the evangelism - and it's not going on through the church itself....
  3. Thank you John for sharing those thoughts. I will respond further when I have had the time to consider thoughtfully what you have shared here. TTYL
  4. 14 “And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation.

    15 “‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! 16 So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. 17 For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see. 19 Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me. 21 The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’”
    These seven letters were to the churches. The church is the body of Christ. I don't think Jesus would have called them the church if they were not the church. Even true Christians can backslide and can become complacent about the things of God due to filling their time and their minds with the things of this world and due to neglect of their relationship with Jesus Christ by not engaging with him daily in prayer, in the study of his word, in personal worship and in obedience. I see the church here in America as fitting this description in many respects, i.e. a vast majority of the church here in America is a lot like this.

    Jesus is about to eject (to force someone to leave; spit; evict) this church out of his mouth (utterance, voice, speech?) Would he no longer claim them as his own? I believe he is on the outside of the church, not because they are not his church, but because the church has shoved him out the door. this is happening at alarming rates in today's modern American church where Jesus and the Holy Spirit are no longer welcome, and the church rejects much of his teachings and instructions, and have opted, instead, to align themselves with human beings and their business plans and marketing schemes for how to build "the church." Yet, they are not building the true church, but a business of human origin which they call church.

    Vv. 15-19 is addressed to the church as a whole. Jesus asked them to buy from him gold refined by fire (righteousness?) and white garments (purity), etc. He wanted to purify their hearts and to cleanse them of their unrighteousness in revival, but they had to repent of their sins and turn back to him. He was standing outside the door knocking because they had kicked him out from among them and did not invite him into their fellowships and into their times of "worship". This call is to the church as a whole, but not corporately, as you say. The decision to let Jesus into our lives and to open the door to him to hear him and to do what he says is an individual decision, not something a whole group can make for us. But, they have to open the door, not just be willing to open the door.

    Husband just got home, so gotta run. Just some thoughts on that passage of scripture I wanted to share with you.
    Cturtle likes this.
  5. We were watching a dvd today and the pastor was talking about each one of the churches. It was interesting that in each case He talked about the good things, then told them to repent for the bad things that He mentioned and then complimented them again. God really loves each church, but if a church does not repent...then God will hand off to someone else the job that He gave them to do.

    In my opinion i think this applies to each individual member of the body of Christ as well. For we are the ones that make up the church. And as was written in Matthew and the parable of the wedding banquet...even though we are called or has to show up in order to be used.

    Thanks for this thread! I enjoyed it
  6. Cturtle,

    Thank you for sharing. I believe there were two churches which had nothing said against them, four that had both good and bad, and one (Laodicea) which had nothing good said about it. Some people believe Laodicea represents the church at the end of the age prior to Jesus' return, though not necessarily describing all church fellowships or all Christian individuals. I don't know that this represents the church across the globe, though, as I believe where the church is being severely persecuted that they are on fire for the Lord, which is why they are being so persecuted. Yet, I do believe this is a good picture of the church here in America, generally speaking, but with exceptions, as I have already stated. This might represent the church in the West, in general, including Europe, too. I don't know about other countries. I can only speak of what I know of America, and what I have read and heard talked about from multiple preachers of the Word who also see this spiritual decline in the Western church.

    To the five churches which had bad said about them, they were to repent or else something bad was going to happen to them, i.e. there will be some type of divine discipline and correction, but not for the purpose to destroy them, I believe, but for the purpose to revive them and to bring them back into proper fellowship with their Lord. Yes, if we don't do what God has given us to do, he will find someone who will do it, and we will miss out on all the blessings of obedience and the blessings of being used by God in the lives of others, and the blessings of seeing people's hearts changed toward God because we were too busy with doing our own thing and we didn't take God seriously or our commitments to him.

    I believe the parable of the wedding banquet, though, is a much stronger message than just being used or not being used by God because we showed up or failed to show up, i.e. we failed to obey him and to follow where he leads us. If my memory serves me correctly, I believe it had to do with the Jews whom God had called as his chosen people, but who rejected Jesus Christ as their Lord and Messiah, so even though they were the first to be invited, they didn't come, so the gospel went out to the Gentiles and many of them did come. I believe that was the message. Instead of the Jews showing up, they refused, and they even mistreated and killed the Lord's servants.

    But then there was this man who showed up but he wasn't dressed in the proper attire. So, he was thrown out into the utter darkness, "where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." So, who does this man represent? I believe he represents those who think they are saved but they are not because they never repented of their sin and they never truly turned to God and allowed him, by his Spirit, to transform their hearts and to give them new birth in Christ Jesus. They were Christians in name only, and that is scary because so many, many people who call themselves Christians today believe they don't have to turn from their sins and that they don't have to obey the Lord, but that they can continue to live like they did before they were "saved," because of God's grace. But, that is not the picture of grace given to us by the apostles or by Jesus. True grace delivers us out of slavery to sin. It doesn't leave us in our sin.

    Anyway, these are my thoughts on what you said. Thank you for sharing. I appreciate you and what you share.
  7. Me thinks that i need to go and re-read about those churches :ROFLMAO:. Sounds like i had my facts mixed up. And yes i fully agree about the wedding banquet. I was reading one day and I felt as if God was telling me that the one that was cast out into the darkness...didn't have his proper covering on. That covering was the Blood of Jesus. And yes i agree that if many people don't begin to really grab ahold of God and a relationship with Him....multitudes who thought they were right in heart will find out that they were wrong.
    SueJLove likes this.
  8. We all get our facts mixed up at times. I forget things regularly, especially in my senior years. Seems to be getting worse. So, I have to go back and recheck things regularly. :)

    Yes, the covering is the blood of Jesus. Amen! So many people teaching and believing in a fast-food (quick-fix) faith in Jesus Christ, but it has no root and so it doesn't last (see parable of sower). It was surface-level only, because they are not being taught that faith in Jesus Christ means death to sin, being born of the Spirit, no longer walking according to the flesh but according to the Spirit, and freedom to now walk in Christ's righteousness and holiness. That is the reason Jesus died to save us from our sins, not just so we can escape hell and go to heaven when we die. And, because of this, many are saying a prayer to receive Christ but are never born of the Spirit because they didn't die to sin, they didn't yield to the Spirit's control over their lives, they didn't really come to the cross of Christ in humility and repentance and willingly submit their lives to the one who could save them out of their slavery to sin. And, so they continue in sin thinking that they have their ticket into heaven. Oh, how very sad.

    I like what Matthew Henry said about this: “Be not deceived. Men are very much inclined to flatter themselves that they may live in sin, yet die in Christ, and go to heaven. But we cannot hope to sow to the flesh, and reap everlasting life.” This was taken from his commentary on 1 Co. 6:1-11.
  9. Thanks Sue...

    I am slowly working through an analysis of the 7 churches.... It is fruitful, but also surprising....

    Think for a minute about the application of the message to Laeodecia.... It's THE primary successful evangelistic conversion message within "Inherited Christian" circles... It cuts straight to the heart of those who grew up in church and sit in the pews Sunday after Sunday..... It's the message that brought ME personally to receive Christ.... You THINK you have everything you could ever want - but you are horribly empty inside... You are full of Material possessions, prosperity, good health - but all that is completely worthless and meaningless because you don't have Jesus in your heart... Jesus is standing OUTSIDE your life and knocking - he wants to come IN to your life personally and fill the huge void.... YOU have to make the decision - are YOU going to open the door and let Him in? The Holy Spirit pricks you - and you FEEL how empty you really are... How you are filling up ALL the gaps with everything you can get your hands on and it's not working.....

    As I go back through the 7 letters to 7 churches - interestingly, I really don't see the OTHER 6 calls being actively used by The Church as a call to serious repentance within churches.... It's a shame - as "The harvest is ready but the laborers are few" so to speak.... So many times, we blind ourselves - callous our selves to the TRUTH about our own lives....

    I really feel like Jesus has his church at a turning point... He wants us to OPEN OUR EYES - to SEE how wretched we really are.... To SEE the sin going on within OUR individual churches and to REPENT - whether it's being doctrine police, accepting sexual mischief and revelry, encouraging leaders to LORD Christ over the laity, condemning the weak who fall, practicing "Intellectual" superiority, Disdain for bearing good fruit, Rejecting overcoming, Allowing apostates to lead, or even creating a place where people feel warm, comfortable, and content but they never NEED Jesus....

  10. Good points! Certainly within most all gatherings of the church exist those who are Christian in form only but who have never been born of the Spirit of God. Yes, they "inherited" their Christianity from the generations before them and either no one told them or else they just didn't listen to the true gospel of Jesus Christ, so they think they are Christians when all it is a religion but not a relationship with Almighty God. And, in that you are correct. It isn't working for them, because they are looking for everything else to satisfy them but not to the Savior of their lives who gave himself up for them so that they could no longer live for themselves but for the one who gave his life for them; so that they might die to sin and live to righteousness.

    So, Jesus is calling them to repent of their sin of unbelief and to give their lives to him in surrender to his will for their lives so they may be born again. I believe many people are in this condition within the gatherings of the church today because the church is teaching them a false gospel and is giving them a false hope based on a lie which tells them they don't have to repent or obey, and that all they have to do is "believe," though "believe" is not really explained, yet James said that even the demons believe and they shudder. We have lost the fear of God in today's church here in America.

    And, then you say "I really feel like Jesus has his church at a turning point... He wants us to OPEN OUR EYES - to SEE how wretched we really are.... To SEE the sin going on within OUR individual churches and to REPENT."

    Yes! Here you are speaking of the true church, i.e. of those who are born again. Otherwise, it would not be HIS church, and I agree that Jesus has HIS church at a turning point. When we see the church as a whole we realize that there are nominal Christians who exist within the meetings (gatherings) of the church who think they are Christians, but who are not. Then there are also those who are genuinely born of the Spirit but who have, overtime, been sucked into the worldly church's ways and have neglected their relationships with Jesus Christ, and so Jesus is calling them, too, to repent, but not in the sense of being born anew, but of being revived and brought back to Christ. Much of today's church here in America is in serious need of revival because they have allowed their relationships with the Lord and the church, as a whole, to sink into apathy and complacency and worldliness. Yet, there are also those within the gatherings of the church who have made no commitment to Christ at all, as well as there are those who are quite serious about their relationship with Jesus Christ, and many of those (the latter) are being persecuted within the church because they do walk in the fear of God, and that doesn't mix with the business plans of the worldly church.

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