Kind of confused, need a little clarification

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I Cor. 3:15 has nothing to do with Purgatory. It speaks of the treasures we can build up- (store up) in Heaven for service of God here on earth. There are like 7-9 or more crowns we can earn in Heaven for service done here.

Believers, at the "Great White Throne Judgement", will not be judged for eternal life or death, but what treasures they will recieve or will lose in Heaven. God opens two Books in Rev. at the "GWTJ" day. the first, is the "Book of Life". The second will be of "works".

The unsaved will be judged for thier "works" to decide the level of punishment they will deal with forever, where saved Children of God will find out what treasures they will recieve or lose, based on thier works in service for God here.

Very good post brother. But I do have a couple of questions about these parts that I have quoted of yours.
I was under the assumption that we all were equal in heaven. Meaning we all had the same number of crowns. How are we to know what we need to do here on earth to get more crowns. I was unaware that there was extra credit chances in Christianity.
On the flip side of that I didn't know that any place of eternal punishment was any worse than any other. Is Adolf Hitler in a worse hell than Saddam Hussein? Just a couple random thoughts I had.
 
question for Catholics

What if I die 1 second before judgment? Do I get to skip purgatory?

I'm serious. What is the Catholic view?
 
If Christ paid the price I could not pay why would I deceive myself into thinking I can make myself worthy now?

"For I through the law died to the law, that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me; and the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not nullify the grace of God; for if justification were through the law, then Christ died to no purpose." (Galatians 2:19-21)

When we are in God's grace, our souls are transformed, and we no longer live...but Christ lives in us. That is the transforming grace of our Glorious and Merciful God. As human beings, we are completely unworthy of our infinitely perfect God. But, with the sharing of God's life, we are transformed into new beings. It is wonderful what God's grace does for us!!

"For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit." (1 Peter 3:18)
The Church at Galatia made much the same error thinking they could please God by obeying rules and becoming acceptable in their own strength. Jesus Christ is either our Saviour in every detail or He is not our Saviour at all. What part of paying for your sins completely on the cross did He fail in? The answer is of course none.
The Galatians were indeed mistaken. If one has works, but no faith, He cannot be saved. That is presumption and is a sin against the virtue of hope.

"And you, who once were estranged and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and irreproachable before him, provided that you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel which you have heard, which has been preached to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister. Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ's afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church..." (Col. 1:21-24).

Again, Christ's sacrifice was not lacking. But we, because of our imperfections, must also suffer on His behalf.

It in no way seems logical to me as Jesus did a complete work on the cross.
But logic cannot comprehend God anyway
Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Indeed! We can never understand God. We can, however, understand many of His workings. Imperfect as our understanding may be, we still have understanding. That's why the Bible explains the workings of God to us. Isaiah uses figurative language quite often. Here, I believe, he is simply pointing out that God is infinitely more perfect than we.
People, people. what does Scripture say?

"unless a man be born again, he shall not see the Kingdom of Heaven."

"If Grace be of Grace, works is no more works. But if works be of works, then Grace is no more grace, Jesus Christ died on the cross in vain."

Salvation is by the Grace of God, not by works, lest any man should boast.
Amen!! No good works are possible without grace!
Purgatory? No, absolutely not. Never has, never will. Purgatory has been taught to be a place where marginally good or sinful people went, in order to live after phys. death, for God to decide if allowed into Heaven or not. A lie of Satan.

This refers to works. No way. This is no different than believing the "Mother Mary" can do a "second works of Grace", to save people to Heaven. Both are lies.
If some members were to say this about any other belief, I believe that they would be accused of denomination bashing and putting down others' beliefs. Let's play fair here, folks. ;)
Jesus Christ declared- "I AM the way, the Truth and the Life". "I"- Jesus only, no other, no works, etc.
I believe that we must have some kind of relationship with Him to have the way, truth, and life. Indeed, we must have a GOOD relationship with Him to have those things. And a relationship is two-sided. God always loves us. Therefore, we must love Him in return.
Do ye not know that ye are saved by Grace thru faith in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior?
Amen!

This is a very good discussion! :)
 
Ok just because I think there is not enough controversy wrapped around this already.:rolleyes:
What would happen during the rapture? Do the Catholics get taken up into purgatory and the rest of us get the fast track to heaven?
 
Ok just because I think there is not enough controversy wrapped around this already.:rolleyes:
What would happen during the rapture? Do the Catholics get taken up into purgatory and the rest of us get the fast track to heaven?

One would hope that the tribulation will be purgatory enough;)

Those who reject the idea of purgatory, in my opinion, simply don't properly understand what it is.
 
Not sure if this has been discussed here yet but say for instance there is a purgatory.
What would you do when you got there? Confess the sins that Christ didn't die for?
 
my thoughts were the saved are taken up,then the rest have to make there minds up at the crunch time.lots are still blind.
 
Not sure if this has been discussed here yet but say for instance there is a purgatory.
What would you do when you got there? Confess the sins that Christ didn't die for?

No. You are cleansed of your remaining sinfulness.

Most of us would freely admit that we have sinned since we first became Christian. Obviously, we are not completely cleansed of all sinfulness from the moment we become Christian, don't you agree? I want to make sure you understand what I've already said before I go on.

So do you agree with what I said in the above paragraph?
 
No. You are cleansed of your remaining sinfulness.

Most of us would freely admit that we have sinned since we first became Christian. Obviously, we are not completely cleansed of all sinfulness from the moment we become Christian, don't you agree? I want to make sure you understand what I've already said before I go on.

So do you agree with what I said in the above paragraph?

I think when I ask my sins to be forgiven I am white as snow.
I kind of agree with you. I agree I don't understand purgatory but I don't agree that there is purgatory.
 
I think when I ask my sins to be forgiven I am white as snow.
I kind of agree with you. I agree I don't understand purgatory but I don't agree that there is purgatory.

I didn't say that your sinfulness is not forgiven, I said that it is not completely gone yet. Christians are still capable of sin. Does that make it clearer?
 
I didn't say that your sinfulness is not forgiven, I said that it is not completely gone yet. Christians are still capable of sin. Does that make it clearer?

I know we are capable of sin. I do it daily. But I also ask forgiveness for my sins and they are gone. Jesus took care of that so I will be accepted into heaven the way I am.
 
I know we are capable of sin. I do it daily. But I also ask forgiveness for my sins and they are gone. Jesus took care of that so I will be accepted into heaven the way I am.

But the way you are right now is sinful. How can a sinful person enter God's presence?

Don't get ahead of me now, or we'll start going in circles;)
 
"There shall not enter into it anything defiled or that worketh abomination or maketh a lie: but they that are written in the book of life of the Iamb." (Apocalypse 21 :27)

How can you enter into heaven, if you have even the smallest tiniest sin on your soul? And there's a long list of sins you could have committed? Have you really repented from your heart, every single time you told a lie, gossiped, were selfish etc.?

You cannot enter into heaven unless you are absolutely perfect.
 
Isn't it wonderful that Jesus took all of my sinfulness and gave me His righteousness. If we had to get perfect ourselves there would never walk a man into God's presence. That is why He sent Jesus. The new inner man ( as one is born again) is holy and pure. The outer man is fading away and it is he that has a sin problem. My spirit is made new, my body is replaced and my soul is saved based on the righteousness of Christ not mine- this is scripture and this is the gospel for with God all things are possible.
 
Perhaps more study on the new birth could clarify this gap for you.
 
I think when I ask my sins to be forgiven I am white as snow.
I kind of agree with you. I agree I don't understand purgatory but I don't agree that there is purgatory.

I just wanted to interject, because this may be a further point of confusion: purgatory is not a place, but a state of being of the soul. Traditionally, people talk of being in purgatory in terms of time, but this isn't necessarily accurate. Once again, we are outside of our time after death and we step into God's time, which is eternity. Nobody knows the exact nature of purgatory-- the what/where/when/how-- but we do know that there is such a thing, as the Bible and the Church have always taught us.

Ginger--
What if I die 1 second before judgment? Do I get to skip purgatory? I'm serious. What is the Catholic view?

Good question. Same concept as above: one second before the Judgement is still counting in our time. In that once second of death your soul leaves earthly time and is pulled into eternity...where there isn't necessarily any such thing as seconds or centuries, or any difference between them.
 
It is so sad to me to see so many people who have completely missed the fact that Christ and Christ alone can make you worthy to come into the presence of God. If we could have done it Jesus would not have been crucified for us- this is the most basic tenet of Christianity.
 
It is so sad to me to see so many people who have completely missed the fact that Christ and Christ alone can make you worthy to come into the presence of God. If we could have done it Jesus would not have been crucified for us- this is the most basic tenet of Christianity.

forgive us (or me), because we're not explaining it correctly, then. Nobody has said that we save ourselves. It is only by the grace of God, through and because of Jesus that any person can be saved. I guess where we differ is in defining the means by which we accept this free gift of salvation.
 
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