Just How Egalitarian Is The Bible?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Stan, Aug 5, 2013.

  1. I recently made a big mistake in getting involved in a Christian Egalitarian Forum. I wasn't really sure what it was until I started responding to posts. It didn't go well and after a number of very hostile responses to my posts as well as a few advocating I repent, I deleted my account and left.

    Personally I don't see that the Bible teaches Egalitarianism as it is defined, nor that we are all Equal as it is defined.

    Here is an explanation of the doctrine: http://www.theopedia.com/Egalitarianism

    Here is a definition of EQUAL: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/equal

    Thoughts? Scriptures?
  2. So, how much time did you spend praying about repentance?
    Is your mind closed to possible God inspired instruction?
    You say you have me on your ignore list.......see what questions I ask of you that everyone else can read, but you....?:ROFLMAO:
    Yep, I laugh at your attitude Stan.
  3. Not sure what aspect you may be interested in, Stan: male/female issues regarding salvation or regarding responsibilities.
    Is this about Church issues (female leadership) or about non-church matters (equal rights movements?
  4. I think pretty much everything is fair game as far as it relates to Biblical precepts and support.
    What are we talking about when we use the definition of EQUAL vs EGALITARIAN in viewing Christianity?
    Is it the same for both? Are men and women equal or different and how does that impact their roles IF they actually have any?
    Why is their even an Egalitarian denomination? Has the actual BOC fallen down on the job?
    Seems a lot is up for grabs in this issue?
  5. To paraphrase CS Lewis, people are no more equal spiritually than they are in hat and shoe size.

    Men and women will be judged equally (on their merits) but serve different roles. The apostles understood this, it is only the gender jealousy and arrogance of modern thought that has raised the issue.
    Paul spoke on all this. If you are a man, do men's things and be content. If a woman, do women's things and be content.
    It would not be an issue at all if personal pride and desire for power were not at the root of it.
    Stan, Rusty and calvin says Amen and like this.
  6. Not sure what you are saying, Stan: Can you be more specific?
  7. Equal in what way? As in some were made in God's image more so than others, or that not everyone is literally equal in every way possible outside of physicality?

    Naturally I believe we have all been made in God's image and salvation is equally for all who submit to God, believe in the holy Trinity, and accept that we are saved by grace through our faith justified by our works. HOWEVER, neither the Bible nor the Church recognizes that there is basically no gender in regards to the traditions and teachings (1 Timothy 2:11-14), nor could a man become a nun.

    Of not everyone sides with the Roman Catholic Church, but long before and after the protestant reform, many groups, like the Stoics, regarded Christianity as a women's religion because it showed dignity to women in ways no other group did, including many of them taking leadership roles separately from men.

    But to answer your question, no, I don't believe in Egalitarian Christianity.
  8. Are you pulling my leg?
  9. No...I've never heard of an "Egalitarian denomination" and not sure what you mean by "fallen down on the job" as you haven't (for me anyway) defines the "job" in this facet.
  10. LOL...OK sorry. Did you not read the link in the OP? The first one is about the theology in the same sense as Pentecostalism, although I suppose represented by more than one actual denomination.

    I discovered the following link after you posted your question.

    Now this may or may not be accurate, or it may be based on their OFFICIAL statements of faith.
  11. Glanced at the first, will study the second.

    I'm rather reluctant to make strong statements about an issue that I have never been involved in...but I'll certainly lurk.
  12. Having looked over the original link you provided on Egalitarianism, it seems rather ridiculous, both from an overall biblical perspective as well as from a strictly realistic one.

    Clearly, we are all equal in the eyes of God with regards to our value as individuals and our relationship with Him. To deny that is to deny the nature of God and the fact that we are all created in His image.

    But, to deny that there are differences between the genders and that each should have equal access to all roles and responsibilities within a family, the whole of scripture certainly does not bear this out. How can the man be pointed to as he head of the household, if a woman, biblically, has just as much right to that position as the man?

    This does not make the woman any less valuable within the context of the family than it makes any employee of a company less valuable than any other with a different role. All of them are needed for the proper function of the company, and they should all be valued equally in terms of their humanity. But, in order for a business to run smoothly, there has to be a specific person upon whom the FINAL decision must fall - otherwise, there would be anarchy and the business would fail.

    Likewise, within the family, it has been determined that the man should have the final say, when push comes to shove. Hopefully, the man respects his wife enough to have a dialogue with her about all important decisions within the family and pays attention to her valuable input. In the best case (and, hopefully, in most cases), the final decision would be one that both are in agreement on. But, in those cases where agreement CANNOT be reached and a decision MUST be made and waiting and praying is no longer an option, someone has to be able to make that final decision. That role/responsibility has been given to the man, biblically.

    So, I do not see how Egalitarianism can possibly be considered biblical in the strictest sense.

    Besides, if there is no difference between the two, why have different genders at all? Why didn't God design us to all be gender neutral in the first place with an ability to reproduce with the sexual act? It just doesn't make any practical sense either.
  13. "without the sexual act", I meant, obviously.

  14. Thanks Michael, good perspective.
    However I wanted to address just one thing you said that I made bold above. The man IS the head of the household as Paul indicates in 1 Tim 3, and he also shows in 1 Tim 5 that WIDOWS should manage their households.
    I agree wholeheartedly that husband and wife should work TOGETHER to manage the home, and to submit to each other, but it would seem the Bible makes it clear that is it the mans responsibility.
  15. Actually, I'm in agreement with you. That was actually the point I was trying to make. I was trying to say, if the Egalitarian perspective were correct, in that the woman would have the same right to be the head of the household as the man (since Egalitarianism suggests we are equal in all manners, then why would the bible specifically indicate that this position should be held by the man? It is a contradiction that is not possible if the Bible is the inerrant Word of God (which I believe it is). Therefore, one of the two perspectives must be in error, and I don't believe it is scripture itself.

    Thank you for clarifying that. Apparently, my original post did not make my stance clear on that issue.
  16. Define "manage", Stan.
    I know Christian men who are clueless about running a home(finances, cooking,accounting,child counseling, socializing), but use their "headship" as a hammer.
  17. Nobody is suggesting that this type of behavior is acceptable or biblical. Everyone always points to the jerks who lord their "headship" over their families as "proof" that it isn't biblical or loving for the man to be the head of the household. But, it is only proof that we are all flawed individuals and need the power of the Holy Spirit to help us live out a biblical lifestyle that lifts up those around us rather than holds them down.

    There are MANY men who take that responsibility very seriously and treat their wives and children with much love and respect and do NOT lord their headship over their families. Why aren't THEY the examples of how this can work well and to the advantage of the family?

    You don't get to pick and choose which parts of the bible you want to believe are true and which parts you want to ignore because they clash with you sense of how the world should be. That's not how it works.

    The bible is very clear on this point and with good reason. By CHOOSING who should be the head of the household, the bible eliminates that argument from a Christian marriage (so long as both spouses recognize the authority of scripture and believe that God knows and wants what is best for them individually AND as a family).

    Again, there has to be someone who has the final say in matters where disagreement cannot be overcome, and, if that issue had not been addressed by God's word, there would always be a power struggle in that area (even more than there often already is).
    Stan and LysanderShapiro say Amen and like this.
  18. Thanks for clarifying. I though it may be the way you worded it, I just want to make sure. :cool:
    God Bless.
  19. Very true Rusty, and as someone who ran businesses for over 35 years, I found that the best managers were the ones who were able to identify the skills their people had and delegate accordingly. In my first marriage, my wife was TERRIBLE with budgeting the household income and I had to ensure it was done. Many of my friends at that time, gave that responsibility to their wives who were very good at doing it. The failure of some to do it wrong, does not negate their responsibility assigned by God. If a husband does NOT love his wife as Christ loves the Chruch, that is his fault and cannot nullify what scripture clearly shows. Take a look at the following definition: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/husband

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