Judgment Seat Of Christ: Part Two

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by netchaplain, Dec 29, 2012.

  1. I believe "the judgment seat of Christ" is something that "all must appear before", which will be completed at two varying chronological events of resurrections.​

    Our judgment began when we were saved and involves, not punishment but chastisement. I believe that Rev 20:4 is the completion of the first judgment and resurrection, which involves only the saved. "But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world" (1 Cor 11:32). Here we will receive not only another body but also rewards for what we've done since being regenerated. This is the same event as 1 Thess 4:16, 17 and Rev 22:12.

    I believe the "great white throne" and "the judgment seat of Christ" are the same thing, but performed at different times, because it is Christ who will be judging both resurrections. The first resurrection - of the saved (Rev 20:5, 6; 1 Thess 4:16, 17); the last resurrection - of the unsaved (Rev 20: 11-15).

    "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice" (at different times). "And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life (1 Thess 4:16, 17; Rev 20:4) and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation (Rev 20:11-15).

    "For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God" (1 Pet 4:17)?

  2. My dear brother, I mean no disrepect to you but I am afraid I must disagree with you.

    You stated above that....................
    " believe the "great white throne" and "the judgment seat of Christ" are the same thing, but performed at different times, because it is Christ who will be judging both resurrections. "

    The Judgment Seat of Christ is for believers only. It will be after the Rapture. We as believers will give a report to Jesus Christ but it is NOT the Great White Throne Judgment.

    The Great White Throne Judgment is what is in view in Revelation 20:11-15.............
    "And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire".

    This is the SECOND Resurrection and it is of the "LOST" of all the ages. They are raised to be given an equitable, fair, and just evaluation of their works in respect to their salvation.

    This will take place 1000 years after the 1st Resurrection. It will be a fair trial and Jesus Christ will be the judge.

    Notice Revelation 20:5........
    "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years WERE FINISHED, this is the first resurrection."
  3. You're fine Brother, I know your intent is always for encouragement and thanks for prefacing your reply as such.

    I'm familiar with the concept of "the Bema Seat" but cannot yet find Scriptural reference to this title, but what it teaches is true. As stated in my post, the rewards are given at the resurrections, which are different rewards to different peoples at different times. The saints first because "judgment begins at the house of God (1 Pet 4:17); not of punishment but chastisement, until the rewards within eternal life are given at the first resurrection (Rev 20:4). Then the rewards within eternal death for the unsaved are given at the second resurrection (20:11-15). To me, both make up the judgement seat of Christ because Christ judges both and it answers to "all must appear".

    The reason for my post is to show that the judgement of the saints is eternal life; and the judgement of the unsaved is eternal death.
  4. Well, the wonderful thing about this is that it is NOT a basic of Christianity. We have Christian liberty to understand as the Holy Spirit teaches us.

    Prophecy is and always has been rather debatable.

    May I say to you Net that it is always a joy to speak with a learned man of God who shows that Christ lives in him.

    Let me see if I can explain to you where my thinking is on this. I hope it does not come out to long because I tend to get carried away at times, so if I do please forgive me.

    While both the saved and the lost must each face a judgment seat, in the divine purpose there is IMO a vital differance between the type of judgment which each group will experience. The believer has already been cleansed from his sin by the blood of the Lord Jesus and so will not come under any condemnation for his sin. His sin has already been judged and paid for by Christ.

    1). JUDGMENT SEAT OF CHRIST (Bema Seat)......For the BELIEVER.

    A. This will take place AFTER the Rapture.
    B. All believers will appear at it.

    2 Corinthians 5:10
    "We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that every one may receive the things done in his body".

    C. There will be personal confession.

    Romans 14:11
    "Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess".

    D. Each believer shall give an account of himself.

    Romans 14:12
    "So then everyone of us shall give account of himself to God".

    E. The basis of this judgment will be----a steward accounting and will concern:

    (1) Privileges enjoyed
    (2) Faithfulness displayed:
    Since "it is required of a steward that he be faithful"......(1 Corth. 4:2)
    This judgment seat will reveal the extent of each believer's steadfastness.

    Luke 12:48
    "For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required.

    F. The Rewards

    (1) Classification
    1 Corth. 3:11-12 tells us there will be a test by fire to distinguish between the durable and the perishable, the
    precious and the worthless.

    (2) Durability
    The works symbolized by gold, silver and precious stones will be rewarded worthily and the reward will be
    "according as his work shall be (Rev. 22:12) .

    (3) Eternal Loss
    1 Corth. 3:15
    "If any man's works shall be burned, he shall suffer loss".

    G. Eternal Distinctions

    1 Corth. 15:41
    "There is one glory of the sun and another glory of the moon and another glory of the stars, for one star
    differeth from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the (saved) dead".

    Wood, hay, and stuble do not shine. But gold, silver and precious stones do. Gold as the richest symbol would
    shine as the sun, and would signify the ultomate in Heavenly rewards.

    Daniel 12:3
    "And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament, and they that turn many to
    righteousness as the stars for ever and ever".


    A. It will take place after the Millennium.......(Revelation 20:5-15).

    B. All of the lost of all the ages will appear.

    Revelation 20:12-13
    "And I saw the (lost) dead, small and great, stand before God, and the sea gave up the dead which were in it,
    and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them".

    DEATH refers to what happens to the body when it dies, "Hell" (Hades/Sheol) refers to the place where the
    soul and spirit of unbelievers go at deat.

    Hell is the place where the unbelieving lost dead go and experience torment until the time that they are
    resurrected to stand before the GREAT WHITE THRONE in Rev. 20 which is AFTER the Mellennium.

    C. Unbelievers body, soul and spirit will be reunited.

    D. The awesome face of God will cause terrible fear

    Revelation 20:11
    "And I saw a GREAT WHITE THRONE and Him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heave fled
    away, and there was found no place for them".

    E. Basis for this Judgment

    This judgment is not to determine wheter this group is saved or lost. ALL those at this judment are lost.......

    This is rather a judgment on the evil works of the unsaved and since works canot save......all of these are

    F. The Result of this judgment

    Revelation 20:15
    "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the fire".

    Eternal seperation from God is the destiny of the unsaved.

    Well, as usual I have made this much to long. I do however hope that all we see the Biblical case for TWO resurrections seperated by 1000 years. 1st one for the saved, the 2nd for the lost.

    IMHO it has to be that way because we must consider that there is one final rebellion in Rev. 20 and those will be the lost who do not come to Christ during the 1000 year rule of Christ. God will wait untill that rebellion is over THEN will the 2nd resurrection take place of the ALL the unsaved which must include those in the Gog and Magog rebellion of Rev. 20.

    God bless and happy new year.
  5. Thanks for the compliment Brother and the same to you! Your thesis you've just posted and what I've presented on this subject are nearly synonymous.

    In the learning of God's Word, I always try to find consensus between what the Spirit teaches me and what He has taught Bible commentators, which is for me usually John Gill because he seems to me the most inclusive and accurate. The only issue I have at variance with his teachings is his view on spiritualizing the Church to be Israel because I do not accept that the contemporary Church is a new Israel. After all, the new Israel will not come to fruition until the Millennium Kingdom and will involve only Jewish nationality (Jer. 31:31,32; Ezek. 36:26,27; 37:14).

    The phrase "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus" does not mean there are no more Jews or Greeks, males or females, but that our unification with God is the same. Though our unification is the same, the fellowship of the Church with God will not be in the same capacity or position as the saved Israel.

    Allow me to present an example and then get back to me with your opinion. I still find it interesting and I'm still attempting to parallel all of it with the Word and together we can gain more ground on it.
    Take a view of Rev 20:8:http://www.ewordtoday.com/comments/revelation/gill/revelation20.htm
  6. Agreed. John Gill is an outstanding Bible man.

    I too disagree with his thinking on the church and Israel.

    Israel is Israel and the church is the church.

    God is not finished with the Jews/Israel.
  7. So there is a separate judgement for the saved and the unsaved? A separate seat?

    Is Hades/Sheol like the county lockup where a prisoner awaits trial, and eventually prison?
  8. I believe that is an accurate analogy TF (Rev 20:13)! The distinction made between the first and last resurrections
    makes for separate judgments because the judgments are executed at the time of their resurrections (Rev 20:6, 6).
  9. Yes there is.

    The Judgment seat of Christ is for believers, after the Rapture and before the 1000 year rule of Christ.
    (Romans 14:10)
    (2 Corth. 5:10)
    (1 Thess. 4:13-18)

    The Great White Throne Judment in at the end of the 1000 year rule of Christ and is for all the wicked lost of all the ages.
    (Revelation 20:11-15)

    As for Hades/Sheol...............Yes, your example is pretty much correct.

    Now.....remember, Hades/Sheol according to Luke 16:19-31 is seperated by a "GULF".
    One one side is "Paradise" where all the saved of the Old Test. were in. The other side is "TORMENTS" were the wicked lost are until the Great White Throne Judgment which is the second resurrection.

    All of the Old Test. saints were removed from the "Paradise" side by the Lord Jesus at His assention and He took their spirits to heaven with Him according to Ephesians 4 and 2 Peter 2.
  10. In the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man, Heaven (where Lazarus is) is visible from Hell (where the rich man is). Did the OT not use another name for it, Abraham's Bosom?
  11. Correct.

    Luke 16:21
    "And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried"

    Abraham's bosom was the "Paradise " side of Sheol which Jesus referred to when he promised the thief on the cross.....
    "Today, you will be with me in PARADISE".
  12. The bible clearly reveals that there will be three different judgments: that of believers before the judgment seat of Christ (sometimes called the bema seat), the judgment of Nations at the return of the Lord, and the great White Throne.
    The judgment of all believers before the Judgment seat of Christ
    The judgment of believers is not a judgment unto condemnation, since they all possess eternal life (John 3:18 and Romans 8:1). This judgment also called the "bema" seat is a matter of determining rewards and discipline (2Corinthians 5:10; Romans 14:10-12; Mat. 25:14-30; 1Cor. 3:10-15)
    "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to what he hath done, whether it be good or bad." (2Cor. 5:10)
    All Christians will be judged at the judgment seat of Christ, while the ungodly will be judged at the Great White Throne. The judgment of believers will be before the Millennium, at his return, and the judgment of the ungodly will be after the Millennium. The judgment of believers is not for damnation but for reward, but the judgment of the ungodly will lead to eternal damnation.
    The Word of God leaves no doubts: "For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ [. . .] So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. (Romans 14:10 e 12) For the Son of Man shall come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He shall reward every man according to his works. (Matthew 16:27)
    Even though we have been saved, God will still judge us. This judgment has nothing to do with hell; it is a judgment for rewards and punishments. Where is it in the bible that teaches that becoming born again exempts us from discipline at the judgment seat of Christ? On the contrary, scripture is clear that there will be discipline.
    "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every man according as his work shall be." (Revelation 22:12)
    "For I know nothing by myself, yet am I not hereby justified; but He that judgeth me is the Lord. Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts; and then shall every man have praise of God." (1Cor. 4:4-5)
    If there is reward, logically there will also be punishment.
    "For we know Him that hath said, "Vengeance belongs unto Me; I will recompense," says the Lord. And again, "The Lord shall judge His people." It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."
    It is true that when there is confession of sins, they are forgiven and there is no more record of them before God. The problem is when we practice things worthy of reproof or when we violate even the smallest commandment and teach others to do the same. These people will be disciplined and considered least in the kingdom.
    Jesus said:
    "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven." (Matthew 5:19)
    This judgment of the believers is portrayed in the Parable of the Talents (Matthew 25:14-30). In the end, the Lord will come to reckon with his servants. This will be the Judgments Seat of Christ. Take note that in this parable, the servants were not judged for the faith that they had; they were judged by works, or in other words, whether or not they knew how to administer the talent that each had received. The problem was that one of the servants buried his talent. He had done nothing sinful like commit adultery, robbery or murder. He did not even loose the talent that he had received, he just buried it. He left it untouched and intact. However, he was obligated to give an accounting of his unfaithfulness and was disciplined (Matthew 25:14-20).
    The Word of God shows us in Luke, that there is not only the possibility of loss of reward, but also the possibility of discipline.
    "And that servant, who knew his lord’s will and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not and committed things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall much be required; and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." (Luke 12:47-48)
    The Apostle Paul wrote, "Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.
    “If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." (1Cor 3:13-15)
    How could someone suffer harm by fire without having any type of suffering? Consider John 15:6, "If a man abide not in Me, he is cast forth as a branch and is withered; and men gather them and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." (John 15:6)
    To not remain in the Lord and be cast out or in the fire are disciplinary and punitive experiences before God. If a Christian falls in sin and fails to repent, God may discipline him. Sin in the life of an unbeliever is sin, but the sin in the life of a believer is also sin. Believers who know God's will and do not obey it, will receive many stripes. Believers that are without knowledge and do not do God's will receive fewer stripes. Of course, the stripes are merely illustrations of human discipline that each will receive that day if they do not obey Gods will today. He who has more light has more responsibility.
    The judgment of the Nations at the return of Christ
    The judgment of the nations will be conducted according to the manner that each nation treats the Jews and the persecuted Christians by the antichrist during the great Tribulation (Mat. 25:31-46; Rev. 16:12-16 and 19:11-21). This judgment is explained in Matthew 25, and is known as the Judgment of the Nations. When the Lord Jesus returns, the nations will continue to exist on the earth. Not all people will die during the Great Tribulation. He will judge those that survive at his coming. (The Judgment of the Nations is explained in more detail in the article by the same name.)
    The Great White Throne
    This is the judgment of those who have died without Christ. They will be resurrected at the end of the Millennium and will be cast alive in the lake of Fire and Brimstone. (Revelation 20:11-15) There is no such thing as a universal judgment in the Word of God. God does not mix crowds. Each judgment is directed at a specific type of person, the judgment seat of Christ is only for God's servants, and will occur soon after His return, when all the dead in Christ shall rise. The Great White throne will occur after the Millennium.
    " And I saw a great white throne and Him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away, and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and the books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them; and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire." (Revelation 20:11-15)
  13. Hi VB and God's blessings to your Family! I appreciate your reply and I found it encouragingly accompanied with much Scripture, which keeps our opinions in check.

    My opinion concerning this thread mostly concurs with yours, but minus the "discipline" and "punishments" for the believer in eternity. It bears repeating from part one of this thread that I believe "we must all appear" is entirely inclusive of mankind from Adam on, and that the first resurrection prior to the Millennium (judgment of rewards for the saints) and the last resurrection at the end of the Millennium (judgment of condemnation for the lost) are both part of the "Judgment Seat of Christ".

    This is because "The Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son" (John 5:22) and that "He was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead" (Acts 10:42).

    This means "or bad" in 2 Cor 1:10 more sensibly designs the damned in the last judgment. Though the title "Bema Seat" is not found in Scripture, its Christian concept (not the Jewish where it originated) is Scripturally valid concerning the judgment of rewards for the saints (involving rewards only, and those works only which are works of grace will remain--1 Cor 3:14). I believe it's possible that "or bad" could refer to "he shall suffer loss", but it lacks clear Scriptural support, so I think it's more reasonable to attribute "bad" in reference to rewards of the lost, which of course is eternal condemnation.

    This can also answer to "the things done in his body" (2 Cor 5:10). What the believers did while "in the body" was "yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members (includes bodily and spiritual) as instruments of righteousness unto God" (Rom 6:13).
  14. Agreed my friend. There can be a loss of reward but that is not disipline or punishment.
  15. Is this saying that we can judge others if we are believers? Sorry, I don't have time to read all of this but I was redirected to this thread piggybacked off another discussion.
  16. The short of it is this: we are meant to 'correct' one another as God's children. But we cannot correct one another if we are a living hypocrisy. If necessary- we are to rebuke one another or take it to the pastor, or the church. There is a process of correction. Read Paul's epistles.

    Also-if someone refuses correction-there are to be consequences.
    Major likes this.
  17. What about scriptures that state not to judge?

    Luke 6:37

    “Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;

    James 4:11-12

    Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

    Proverbs 31:9

    Open your mouth, judge righteously, defend the rights of the poor and needy.

    At the same time I see this scripture that solidify your point:

    Matthew 7:1-5

    “Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.
    So my question is which one is right? Why do there seem to be contractions in the bible sometimes and aren't we ALL hypocrites since we are natural sinners?
  18. Hi LAWKI - God's blessings to your Family! You have good questions! Your judgment question is answered in another of my threads "To Judge, Or Not To Judge"?

    Your question "Aren't we ALL hypocrites since we are natural sinners"? is one that I find that is very seeking and applicable.

    In theology, and you may already have the right idea, it's when we attempt to spiritually correct others in matters we ourselves are not correct. A good example is when Peter mistakenly "compelled Gentiles to live as Jews" (Gal 2:14) as shown below.

    "Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy" (Gal 2:11-13).

    Let me know in this thread if your inquiry of "aren't we all hypocrites?" goes deeper than what I've presented. Judging from the manner you've presented this question it appears so.
  19. Dear "Life".............

    One of the biggest problems in the Church is that some Christians are way too trusting. Jesus warned, "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." (Mat 7:15).

    If we do not make a judgment on false prophets, why did Jesus tell us this?????
    "BEWARE" gives the indication of LOOKING and JUDGING>

    Far too many of the sheep do not heed our Lord's words. Even when believers are cautioned about certain false teachers, they blow off the warning and blindly follow these wolves. Consider the Mormons, and JW's and Ellen hite followers.

    You've probably heard this many times: "The Bible says not to judge." What the Bible actually says is that we're not to judge a person's heart or motives. "But he that is spiritual judgeth all things," says Paul, "yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ" (1Cor 2:15-16).

    According to Paul true followers of Jesus are of the same mind. When you have the mind of Christ you have spiritual discernment. Christians (who are walking with Christ) have the authority to judge people's words and actions. How do you know if someone is a false teacher? Go to the scriptures!

    In 2 Timothy 3:16-17 Paul says: "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

    No doubt some Christians will continue to complain that "judging" is unbiblical and play the Mat. 7:1-3 card: "Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"

    What they fail to understand is that the Spirit of God abides in regenerate Christians. Hence we have the mind of Christ! As for the unbeliever, Scripture clearly teaches that the natural man [unregenerate] "receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Cor 2:14). So the unregenerate person does not — cannot — understand the things of God. Amazingly, a growing number of self-professed Christians think the things of God are foolishness.
  20. There seems to be an overall lack of -GOING TO SAY THE "F" WORD- fundamentals when it comes to Christians.

    #1 After salvation-you are a new creature in Christ-you are supposed to be living that way; separated from unbelievers AND all appearance of evil . Many Christians will raise their hand for salvation and keep on trucking in the same life they were living. Then they wonder why God's blessing is missing in their life.

    #2 Christians are supposed to be living as 'one accord' under the blanket protection of the Grace of God through Jesus Christ. But we sure have made a mess of it when we have a whole bunch of false doctrines leading people astray. We use scripture to correct each-other, as stated above. Think of it as having 4 captains on the same boat all trying to go in different directions. The boat will either stay in one spot or spin in circles never getting to its destination.

    #3 Living in love means telling each-other the truth. We can correct each-other without condemning if done in love and without mean spirited intent. Problem is, no one is teaching our younger generations how to debate in love without getting emotional and cussing one another out.

    #4 There has to be integrity in your walk with Christ-you are going to have to eat some humble pie sometimes. People have forgotten how to admit they were wrong, apologize and accept good counsel. Then we have those we raised their hand for salvation-but never LEARNED anything about the Bible before trying to give advice. I played that role for 2 years after I got saved and let me tell you-I did more damage than any good. I am guilty of giving bad advice like saying 'oh we can't judge anyone'-then slamming them with things they ought to do from scripture.

    #5 Believers and nonbelievers are DIFFERENT! That's why God tells us to come out from them. You are no longer the same kind of creature spiritually-you cannot have a debate about scripture with a non-believer and expect them to ever be convinced. The Bible IS for believers. The GOSPEL is for all, and those who accept will begin to comprehend what is in the Bible. That is why Christ commanded us to spread the GOSPEL to unbelievers-not chase them with the Bible.

    Christians need the Bible as their spiritual map to a higher calling. Every time you read or hear the Bible-you should garner something new-even from the same area of scripture.

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