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Judas Iscariot?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by TrueChristian1990, Nov 20, 2015.

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  1. What is the general Christian take on Judas Iscariot?
    I know for sure he is not popular among Christians. But I have wondered how much and to what extent his infamy is warranted?

    Many people have a somewhat sympathetic take on him. They say things like "well he had to betray Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane. If he did not, we would not be saved because of no crucifixtion."

    The more I think about it, the less such reasoning makes sense to me. Yes, Jesus had to be crucified, but I don't think one of his disciples had to give him up, or had to do it for 30 pieces of silver.
    I also am not sure if Judas, or really any of the apostles really knew how it was all going to play out. They knew Jesus had to die, but their panic and confusion after He was seized suggested they didn't really know he would be resurrected in three days time. Because of this I tend to think that Jesus' resurrection was just an unintended consequence of Judas' actions.

    Also, I think it says something pretty unfortunate about Judas' character, that he was willing to give Jesus up. He had lived with and travelled with Jesus for the past three years and had full access to all of Jesus' miracles and teachings, far more so than say the Blind man, the Leper, or the Woman at the well who all were convinced of Jesus' divinity and likely would have loved to have had Judas' access to Him.

    I believe Judas' betrayal and subsequent suicide were just symptoms of the fact that perhaps he never truly believed in Jesus, and fundamentally did not understand or "get" him. If he had, he would have known that Jesus would have forgiven him and would not have felt compelled to hang himself.

    Maybe Judas was dissapointed that Christ would not establish a worldly kingdom and overthrow the Romans, maybe he thought that Jesus was just some powerful sorcerer, but not one who could save him from sins, and definitely not the son of God as he claimed.

    This is all just conjecture though. I think there is barely a paragraph or two written about Judas in all the gospels, and his exact thoughts or motivations are never truly made known. I do pity him on some level but also have questions/thoughts about him.

    Can anyone help me with this notion of how to perceive Judas?
  2. Even though there is not a lot written about Judas there is a few things to discern.
    In John 12:6 it says he was a thief.
    In Matthew 26:23 it says that one whom dipped his hand with Jesus in the dish will betray Him....and the reference is to ps 41:9
    And in Matthew 27:3-5 says that he was remorseful but in his self-righteousness he committed suicide....which in my mind says that he really honestly didn't believe that Jesus was the Messiah, and that Jesus' blood would cleanse him of his sin.
    John 6:70-71 Jesus prophsies that it is Judas that will be the one to betray Jesus.

    This is from Bible.org
    Prophecies Relating to Christ’s Crucifixion
    Prophecy: Zechariah 11:12 And I said to them, “If it is good in your sight, give me my wages; but if not, never mind!” So they weighed out thirty shekels of silver as my wages.

    Fulfillment: Matthew 26:14-15 Then one of the twelve, named Judas Iscariot, went to the chief priests, 15 and said, “What are you willing to give me to deliver Him up to you?” And they weighed out to him thirty pieces of silver.

    Prophecy: Psalm 55:12-14 For it is not an enemy who reproaches me, Then I could bear it; Nor is it one who hates me who has exalted himself against me, Then I could hide myself from him. 13 But it is you, a man my equal, My companion and my familiar friend. 14 We who had sweet fellowship together, Walked in the house of God in the throng. (See also Psalm 41:9;Zech 13:6).

    Fulfillment: Matthew 26:49-50 And immediately he went to Jesus and said, “Hail, Rabbi!” and kissed Him. 50 And Jesus said to him, “Friend, do what you have come for.” Then they came and laid hands on Jesus and seized Him.

    My thoughts and belief is that if it was not Judas who betrayed Him it would have been someone else who was close to Him and a friend whom He ate with who would have betrayed Him, because God had a plan and what God has planned will be carried out. If one person is not willing then He will get someone else.

    God bless
    Major and Angela333 say Amen and like this.
  3. JUDAS - G2455 (Strong's Greek Concordance)
    Ioudas - Of Hebrew origin [H3063]; Judas (that is, Jehudah), the name of ten Israelites;
    also of the posterity of one of them and its region: - Juda (-h, -s); Jude.
    yehûdâh - H3063 (Strong's Hebrew Concordance)
    From H3034; celebrated; Jehudah (or Judah), the name of five Israelites; also of the tribe descended from the first,
    and of its territory: - Judah.

    In respect to Judas, Jesus spoke this of him:
    John 17:12
    While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost,
    but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
    Yes there are many Old testament scriptures foretelling that the Messiah would be betrayed (and even for 30 pieces of silver)
    as @Cturtle has outlined in her posting.
    Exodus 21:32 If the ox shall push a manservant or a maidservant; he shall give unto their master thirty shekels of silver,
    and the ox shall be stoned.
    Judas, even his name, represents Judah (the Jews) betraying their own Messiah; the one they had been promised and were waiting
    for all those centuries. The Temple worship, the Levitical priesthood and the religious rulers of Israel was finished and to be
    done away with. Judas betrayed Jesus just as all of Judah also did. Thus the Temple would be destroyed (Daniel 9:26).
    Matthew 12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it:
    for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.

    Many "Christians" also betray Jesus and the gospel. I have unfortunately come across many backsliders and reprobates who have
    gone back to the world and to their former lusts/sins. Betrayal seems a fundamental human weakness / corruption.
    2Peter 2:
    20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ,
    they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
    21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it,
    to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
    22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again;
    and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
    Luke 9:
    61 And another also said, Lord, I will follow thee; but let me first go bid them farewell, which are at home at my house.
    62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

    Judas is a tragic person in history. Preordained to failure? Chosen because Jesus knew his heart and inner person?
    But for us is also the challenge to endure to the end. To keep the faith. To finish the race.
    Let us all have the strength to remain faithful and never deny our Lord.
    Hebrews 10:
    38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
    39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
    Cturtle likes this.
  4. I think being God predestines all things that Judas was an integral part of the plan for executing Jesus and bringing salvation to the world. Through the blood of the final lamb, the scape goat, upon the altar that was the cross.
    If Judas did not give that sacred kiss one last time to identify the lamb from among the sheep would we be in grace today? How else would Rome kill Jesus? When even the Jewish hierarchy wanted him dead but could not due to Rome's authority over them.
  5. My general impression was that Rome didn't much care about Jesus one way or another. Jesus was preaching for three years and never once did Pilate order him arrested before the Passion. I think contrary to many "liberal" Christian takes, Jesus never wanted or advocated an overthrow of Roman Empire, nor did he want a Socialist revolution. Remember "render unto Caesar's that which is Caesar's?" He (and early Christians) thought it important to obey the laws and rulers of a kingdom, but to be mostly focused on Heavenly Kingdom.

    Pilate only crucified Jesus on the insistence of the high priests. I doubt he felt much remorse about it, but he only did so because he feared the consequences of not doing so, not through any conviction of his own, IMO
  6. I think when Jesus was speaking of render unto Caesar he was speaking of order of importance. God should always come first because living in the spirit still entails the feelings of flesh.
  8. "sin must come ,but woe to him by whom it comes "
    The "son of perdition" was long ago foreseen and recorded in the scriptures.
    But not by whom it came .
    Judas had the same opertunities as all the other disciples . In fact he participated in many working of miracles as the others also .
    He walked with Jesus the same amount of time and heard pretty much all that the others did also . But he was not changed by what he saw heard and did .
    When he condemned the woman for not selling the allibaster box full of precious ointment and giving the money to the poor.
    ALL the disciples murmered in agreement with him. Save one . John.
    Who said "He did not say this because he loved the poor but because eh carried the bag" He was a thief.
    Its a very dangerous thing to have' secret' sins and to never be changed by the gospel . For a man often rebuked but stiffens his neck suddenly be broken with no remedy.
    So his final treachery was not something out of the blue .Nor was it down to a misunderstanding of the Lords message as some would have it .
    He had always resisted the Holy ghost not that he did not understand it .
    Was not Lucifer one day found that "the truth was not in him"?
    By the time of the last supper things were coming to a head.
    When the Lord offered him his bread dipped in his own wine from his own cup.
    That was the Lord of the feast doing great honour to one sat with him at the table.
    and his outstretched hand was an act of will to having loved them he loved to the end .
    That regardless of what the devil was going to do. whatever man would do . He by that outstretched hand did Gods will .
    and in the night of the deepest communion between them all was the night of the greatest betrayal of all.
    We should not then be afraid of what the devil will and is doing . But must go about doing the will of God and like the moon in the darkest night when the moon still shines still bare witness that the sun still shines and there is coming a perfect day .
    When Jesus said one of you will betray me " it should be noted that ALL the disciples said "is it I" is it I" is it I ".
    None were so sure it was not them.
    Only one knew it was not him. John . Who asked "who is it ?"
    When Judas either took the bread it was not to his blessing.
    I would hazard the thought that was when the devil entered into his heart as the scriptures say .
    There was then a progression of Judas's fall .
    and instead of allowing the Lord to change him.
    He harboured his sin and his nature and did not allow himself to be exposed to the light .
    So instead of being possesed by the truth and the light .
    He became the like the serpent an embodiment of the devil.
    Self leads to Satan.
    The rest then is 'history'
    save that in scripture we have other mentions of sons of perdition.
    This question of Judas then crops up every so often and im sure will do so more and more as we approach the last days .
    For some would count him worthy of reevaluation and redemption .Even as some would count Adolph Hitler the same 'revision'
    But there are lines men cross and there is no redemption ,"No place of repentance even with many tears "
    Some men said the wrong thing and they crossed the line . Baltahzzar
    Some thought the wrong thing and they crossed the line .Herod.
    Some did the wrong thing and crossed the line . Ahab.
    and many others .
    Some sell themselves to do evil.
    Judas it seemed simply loved money which is the root of all evil.
    and by the time he woke up to the reality of what he had done . It was too late .

    in Christ
  9. I enjoyed reading the comments.
    The Lord could not be apprehended by the priests (Sanhedrin) even though they tried many times. They conjured ways of arresting him as mentioned in Mathew 26.4. However, they feared the people because many held the Lord to be a prophet. Try they did but could not accomplish it. It was necessary for someone in the Lord's inner circle to hand him over because then the priests could defend themselves from public backlash. In addition, it gave the priests a reason for examination of the Lord in the presence of the Chief priest.

    No body likes the idea of predestination, but unfortunately this is a clear case of it. As Paul put it, some were meant as objects of wrath and others as objects for His mercy, Romans 9.22. It was necessary for someone in his inner circle to betray him in order to fulfill scripture. Whether Judas had a propensity towards sin is not very relevant because all of the apostles eventually abandoned the Lord and so all were guilty of betrayal. Remember, Peter abandoned the Lord also when he denied him 3 times.

    Now the question for everyone is, who actually handed the Lord over? Was it Satan, Judas or Gd? Lets look at the other two not yet mentioned.
    The Lord commanded Satan once Satan entered into Judas. John 13.27 "As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him. So Jesus told him, “What you are about to do, do quickly.” I suppose the Lord could have commanded Satan to exit Judas and go away but He rather commands him to accomplish the betrayal quickly. Now the Lord Himself said that He lays His own life down and no one takes it from Him. So I ask you to again think about the question.

    I could not imagine the weight on Judas' conscience knowing he caused the arrest and crucifixion of the Son of Gd. That is unimaginably horrible. Im not here to put up a defense for Judas and only the Lord knows. I do believe Gd is good and merciful in all circumstances.
  10. If Judas wasn't predestined to betray Jesus how then would Jesus have died for the sins of the world?
  11. The point being, if Judas didn't betray Jesus so he ultimately died as planned for the sins of the world, how else would it have been accomplished?
    When Jesus could have called an army of angels to save him from his fate, is it possible that Judas could have collaborated with Rome and the Pharisees and put Jesus on the cross if it wasn't God's will? Jesus was born to die for the worlds sins.
  12. This is so good, I'm glad you shared, new insight :)
    Cturtle likes this.
  13. He did so because he was called to. God predestined his path and Judas followed it. Jesus told him at the table during the last supper to go forth and do what he intended to do. Jesus knew what Judas was going to do and he bid him on his way to do it. Do you think Judas would have gotten out of the room if the other Disciples had known the one among them that would cause Jesus to be betrayed was there? When Peter had a sword in the garden and cleaved off a temple guards ear do you think 11 Disciples would have allowed one man out of the room knowing he was going to cause Jesus to die?

    Jesus mission was to die for the sins of the world. Judas was the primary that guaranteed that mission took its turn in that direction.
    Judas betrayed Jesus because he was meant to. Free will in a life wherein God has told you all things are predestined prior to the world being created, and you being born, is a myth. God is omniscient and omnipresent as that one power that predetermined, predestined, all that exists to act as planned for his glory and by his will.

    You make a left and think you chose to go that way. Yes, you did. But God has his plan awaiting you after you commit to that left. Had you turned right the same thing applies. No thing surprises God. It surprises us because it is God's will. And as he says, his thoughts are not ours, ours are not like unto his.
  14. #14 Fish Catcher Jim, Nov 24, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2015
    Come on Folks....
    Think here for a moment.
    1..It was prophesied long before judas was even born that the one Jesus ate with would betray Him.

    2.. Jesus through the Father chose All 12 ........

    3..Thus Jesus and the Father new Judas was a thief.

    4..Now with Judas being a thief - it kept a door open for satan to work in judas. So no matter how much judas could try and believe - satan already had an open door to plan doubt and unbelief and so forth to keep judas in the dark if you will. (Spiritual Blindness)

    5.. If judas could have held off a little longer - he may have even repented and been forgiven and your neighbor in Heaven. I mean come on - satan inflicted Guilt In The Highest in judas to the point judas could Not take another second and thus intended to rid himself of this pain by killing himself.

    You can argue the point that what else judas could have done and all that other stuff but in all truth - God can do things more then One Way - meaning if judas would have at any time began to beleive and refused satan - God would have placed in the bunch a replacement for judas.

    James W
    Cturtle likes this.
  15. He was actually called to be a disciple and to follow Jesus .

    "God predestined his path ......"
    You would or should explain that some more .
    EVERY seed is predestined to bring forth fruit after its own kind.
    ALL the disciples were beign born of Adam and therefore of a" coruptable seed were therefore predestined to bring forth corruption unto death.
    They as all men and us were as Paul says of it "sons of disobedience" by NATURE .

    Then this lump of clay as all lumps of clay dug from the pit from which we came are no different from any other .
    It is the Potter that makes the difference.
    You nor any can tell me that Jesus did not give the same oppertunities to Judas as he gave the others.

    When we are converted we are translated not only from the kingdom of darkness to the Kingdom of Gods dear Son but we are also translated from one predestination to another .
    Judas never allowed the Lord either to change his thinking . attitudes or nature .
    he thus remained the same in that respect but grew worse with each day as he walked in or with the light but was never transformed by it .

    in Christ
    JPPT1974 likes this.
  16. Judas was not called to become the one who betrayed Jesus. It is prophesied, but he had every opportunity to receive what Jesus offered. It is prophesied because God simply knows what will happen. He doesn't literally direct it.
    Abdicate likes this.
  17. I wonder in a sense why Judas did what he did. And wonder in a sense, why Jesus picked Judas knowing from head on, Judas would betray the one that gave him love and to be one of his Twelve!? It is confusing as Jesus is perfect. And that He knows things before we even do them. Really Judas threw it all away for greed. But Jesus needed to die on the Cross and pave the way for eternity for us for rising from the dead.
  18. Jesus was 100% man when He lived so He could and did overcome evil in the flesh. If He lived as "God" and not "man" then men would still be under the law. Jesus did not know everything. He had to learn, but like we do. The ONLY difference between Jesus and us is that He was born sinless. The rest, He had to learn and grow. He didn't know when He'd was going to return (as man), He had to learn obedience (as man), and as Man He overcame sin in the flesh and paved the way for us to follow, listen and obey the Holy Spirit. We now, today, this moment, have the Holy Spirit Jesus had when He was here on earth. So, Jesus did not know when He was lead by the Spirit to pick Judas, He was obedient in ignorance (by choice). It was only after the Holy Spirit revealed the information about Judas to Jesus lean about who Judas was and what he was going to do. That's what the scriptures say. Jesus came fully as a man. Yes, He was/is God, but He chose to limit Himself so He could save us as a man, like us.
  19. Recommendation... Since the originator of the thread has not been back to participate for a week, perhaps we can all stop posting in this thread for awhile until the originator of this thread does stop by again. This will allow our member to catch up on what is becoming a long thread.

    For TrueChristian1990: If you would like this thread re-opened once you read everything here, please PM any staff member to take care of that for you.

    Thank you.
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