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Jewish Roots - Prayer Shawl - Closet

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Abdicate, Nov 19, 2014.

  1. I bought a new bible called "One New Man Bible, revealing Jewish Roots and Power" (http://onenewmanbible.com) and I am really pleased with some of the translation. Here's an example:

    Mark 5:41 (KJV)
    And he took the damsel by the hand, and said unto her, Talitha cumi; which is, being interpreted, Damsel, I say unto thee, arise.

    Mark 5:43 (ONM)
    And when He took the hand of the child He said to her, "Prayer shawl rise!"

    Ah, ok... really? Well it turns out Greeks were translating Hebrew words as though they were Aramaic - more common in those days. Three times is a "translation" given in Mark and they're intermixed with Hebrew and Aramaic for the SAME SENTENCE! That shocked me! That's like saying Jesus spoke "Spanglish"! (To give a modern example.) I never knew this about ALL translations. I listen to Messianic Hebrew songs from a talented group in Jerusalem and one of my favorite songs is קומי אורי (Kumi Ori), "Arise, Shine"! The problem is in Aramaic the word for maiden is talyetha, not talitha. Small difference, but it's still a different word. This shows that the translator's bent isn't towards the Jews in translating their culture and customs. They're different words. Therefore talitha cumi is "prayer shawl rise".

    Anyhow, the footnote of ONM reads:

    "The Greek text says "Talita coum!" then includes a statement saying "which is translated "Girl, I say to you, rise." This purports to be a translation of "talita coum!" and must have been added by a well-intentioned copier who did not understand, mistaking talitha, the Greek spelling of talit, for the Aramaic talyiata, meaning young woman. "Talit coum" is Hebrew for "Prayer shawl rise!" Jesus placed His prayer shawl over the girl, then spoke to the prayer shawl."

    I have a talit, a prayer shawl, as a novelty, Christian of course. (FYI: The symbol was on the bag is actually on 1st century pottery found throughout Israel!)


    The prayer shawl comes from Number 15:37-41. The square corners you see are called (כנפיה) "wings" in Hebrew and the blue cords are called tzitzit as so commanded by God. This is what the Roman guards drew lots for because it was usually fine linen or wool, Mark 15:24. It's used as a pillow or a blanket when sleeping outside, Exodus 22:26. It's what Ruth pulled from Boaz, in effect proposing to him, in Ruth 3:9. When the woman with the issue of blood (mentioned earlier in Mark 5) "touched his hem" it was really the "wings" of His prayer shawl, fulfilling, Malachi 4:2. We know it was His tzitzit because the Greek translation is κρασπεδου (kraspedon) meaning "fringes of a garment", which is also used in the Septuagint (Greek OT) in Numbers 15:38 where it talks about the fringes, the tzitzit. The word used in Acts 18:3 is σκηνοποιός and is a compound word of σκηνο/ποιός meaning tent/maker. The problem is, this word is only found in the bible! It seems Luke coined the phrase! This is what Paul also made, not camping tents! Tents are prayer shawls! The Bauer Arndt and Gingrich Greek-English Lexicon devotes an entire column to this word! They say that the profession is technical in nature so it's not simply hide tanning for tents. In the end most leave the "profession" unidentified.

    Psalms 61:4 (ESV2011)
    Let me dwell in your tent forever! Let me take refuge under the shelter of your wings! — Selah

    A very large prayer shawl is used in weddings and is the tent under which the couple get married. It's called a hupa. The coolest thing about a prayer shawl is the tsitsits, the cords, tassels. There are one on each corner.
    8 strands – 1 tassel – 5 knots – 4 windings, that equals 18 the numeric symbolism to chai/life. One is numeric equivalent of that is Echad meaning One, the Lord, He is one God. There are 4 windings on each cord, a new covenant, four gospels. Each winding has 5 knots, the five Books of Moses, the Torah, Genesis + Exodus + Leviticus + Numbers + Deuteronomy. The first knot has 7 windings, the second, 8, the third 11, and the fourth, 13. 7+8+11+13=39 the number of lashes Jesus received by the cords, by His stripes we are healed! (Isaiah 53:5)

    How awesome is that!!

    To the Jews, the numeric value of the word tzitzit is 600. The 5 knots and 8 strings combined makes 613, the number of commandments for which the tzitzits are supposed to represent, remind us of God's commandments! They use the windings to mean:

    • Seven represents the perfection of the physical world, which was created in seven days.
    • Eight is the number of transcendence that goes beyond nature.
    • Eleven is the numerical value of vav-hey, the last two letters of God's Name.
    • Thirteen is the numerical value of echad – meaning one.
    Finally, an interesting note that the scriptures state that one blue thread is to be used and the rest white. Resemblance to the blue-white clothes they were forced to wear in the holocaust.

    Ravindran, Via Cassian and Silk says Amen and like this.
  2. I love learning new things!! The blue color thread in the tzitzit is considered a mystery. Here's one of 3 short videos on it:

    Via Cassian likes this.
  3. It's odd but I don't actually recall any graphics where Christ is portrayed with a traditional prayer shawl but He must have worn one - say in the Garden of Gethsemane. Stupid thoughts: were they only worn when praying? Did women wear such? or at least tzitzit?
    autumn oddity likes this.
  4. Excellent, thank you.
  5. My father keeps one as it's a family heirloom.
  6. I'm certain Jesus wore it all the time as the woman reached out and touched it while he was walking to the Pharisee's house. Leviticus says it was to be worn as an outer garment. It is folded in a special way traditionally. This is the "napkin" that was folded in the tomb for Peter to see so he would know that Jesus wasn't stolen, but rose from the dead. A thief would not have folded the prayer shawl which was used to wrap His head in His death, John 20:7.
    Silk likes this.
  7. Wouldn't Christ's prayer shawl have been (probably) the one garment unbloodied that was gambled for?
  8. Yep, but remember the earthquake and those popping out of their graves? A lot was going on at the time of His death. It could have been left behind. It's just a thought. There's no proof either way, except Jesus took the time to wrap it and put it off to the side. We'll know in heaven :) I just think it's cool to think about.
    Silk likes this.
  9. @ Ab
    Readers will understand that the Scriptures Y’shua, and every New Testament author, embraced (irreverently called Old Testament by the Church) are alive and relevant for believers today. As a proof of God’s perfect plan for His perfect Word, readers will discover that Matthew flows, as if a continuous stream, out of the book of Chronicles. Only God could have done this! - See more at: http://onenewmanbible.com/#sthash.h3DPe1Qm.dpuf
    I've never heard anything like this. I'm curious as to your thoughts on Chronicles flowing into Matthew.
  10. I haven't heard or seen this One New Man translation before, thank you for bringing it to my attention.

    I like translations that have Hebrew roots. Sometimes I read or study from the Complete Jewish Bible (CJB) translation. It has names of people and places transliterated to sound like biblical Hebrew. It also puts the names of God back into the text.

    Once in a while I'll listen to scripture being read in biblical Hebrew. I've heard it called a living language before and the biblical Hebrew alphabet has extra meaning; each letter has interesting meaning that brings even more meaning to each word.
  11. HEHEHE Yea, I had to look that up too. It's the order of the Scriptures. This is the order of the Scriptures for the Jews:

    Song of Solomon

    Seeing that Chronicles is the last book (filled with genealogies, a historical book) Matthew picks up where Chronicles leaves off - quoting genealogies. The last portion of Chronicles talks about King Cyrus releasing the captives free. Matthew starts out with the genealogies and the question "Where is the One Who has been born King of the Jews?" and "He will save them from their sins" [captivity!]

    The One New Man bible is easy to read if you read the preface. There are characteristics about Greek and Hebrew which are lost in translations - even this one - which the attempt to highlight. Here's an example that first rubbed me the wrong way because of how it was written:

    Matthew 6:9-13 (ONM)
    Our father, Who is in the heavens: Your name must at once be made holy: Your kingdom must now come: Your will must be done right now, as in heaven also on Earth: You must now give us today the things necessary for our existence: You must right now forgive our sins for us, in the same manner as we have completed forgiving everyone of everything, big and little, against us: And do not lead us into temptation, but You must now rescue us from the evil one.

    Notice all the "You must" throughout. His idea is to show the verb tense that is used: imperative. With all the Grace preachers who say we must demand of God, I thought that's where the translator was going, until I read the preface. Here's an example:

    1. Your will be done.
    2. Your will must be done right now.

    In English the first one is passive. In the second one, is imperative. In the Greek, to a Greek, the second would be a more accurate translation, but has more words than that written in the Greek. Make sense? The ONM bible attempts to recapture the idea behind the words, more than the literal translation of the word. It also returns names to their correct format. The book of James is Jacob, which is the correct name in Hebrew. Stuff like that. I hope this helps.
    Via Cassian likes this.
  12. It sounds interesting to me and I have decided I will look into it in "awhile". I did go to the link @gonefishing posted and perused Genesis but had problems I didn't take time to sort out. It takes some time, when the first prayer you ever learned was the Lord's prayer traditionally, to see the possibilities of the ONM. I remember reading someone saying that "Lead us not into temptation" should be "Let us not be lead into temptation" because God is not the one who leads us there. I see ONM handles it the same. But I kinda agree that the direction be firm and now - I get it anyways. I am strangely drawn to wanting to say Yeshua instead of Christ. Or even in prayers, I like saying Hashem. I do think people have forgotten/dismissed too much of our very real roots.
    So can women wear prayer shawls?
    Abdicate likes this.
  13. My research says no. I have a prayer shawl and I researched the proper way to handle and wear one. I'll see if I can find a link.
    Silk likes this.
  14. http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Blessings/Synagogue_Blessings/Donning_Tallit/Women/women.html
    Abdicate likes this.
  15. Via Cassian and Abdicate say Amen and like this.
  16. Tell me . Who was in the need of being able to rise up out of the bed? A prayer shawl or the young girl?

    Tell me . In where of all of scripture do you find the command that a man should cover his head or the need of a prayer shawl?

    There is none .
    So why on one account did he speak to the prayer shawl and not the young woman .
    and on the other speak to a prayer shawl that has no foundation in the scriptures?

    in Christ
  17. The link which you shared regarding the One New Man Bible was so interesting. Our new relationship with Christ gives us his presence and purpose in life.
    bible scriptures message
  18. Thanks :)

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