Jesus Or God Or Both?
- Thread starter dUmPsTeR
- Start date
I never accused you of such. You said if Jesus was created then he is a different God. But since he was issued he is the same God. Im saying that he was created. Therefore he is a separate god. My point is If Gods PERSONAL name was in the bible(Not LORD) then theyre wouldn't be so many people who confuse God and Jesus as the same beings.
MichaelH
Inactive
That would be correct.
I have two revolvers. I issue you one of them for combat, there are still two revolvers, but you have one of them. Could you explain what this "Issue from" means?
Your making Jesus a created product that came from God. If you make a copy of something (Aphomomioo) You have two, not one. . How does this work? God is not the author of confusion so I am sure you can explain this.
yes, I am a polytheist.
If there is only ONE then......
One throne:
Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
The son got nothing as God gave it back to himself: (if there is one)
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
God messes up and by mistake calls himself God, not his son whom He made heir:
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
I can go on and on......... You don't take a couple scriptures and ignore a bunch of others.
synonyms for establish:foundation, institution, formation, inception, creation, installation
anyone of those words can be rendered in translating ktisis ..
but the reason you CANNOT use "creation" .. is because that choice for translation contradicts prototokos & aphomoioo ..
anyone of those words can be rendered in translating ktisis ..
but the reason you CANNOT use "creation" .. is because that choice for translation contradicts prototokos & aphomoioo ..
it is .. I expanded the list for you ..
do you have access to the Hebrew of verses ???
It doesnt contradict any of those words. God created Jesus to be similar to himself. Just like the angels are referred to as god-like ones. But they are definatly not God.
Im not talking about the hebrew. Im talking about when translated to other languages. Specifically english.
Psa 68:4 .. Whose name is the LORD ..
שֵׁם shem = name
יָהּ Yahh= Yahh (pronounced Jah)
Jhn 5:43 “I have come in My Father's name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, you will receive him.
Yahh-uva (uva = love)
transliterated Yahuveh (Jehovah)
Yahh-shua (shua = saves)
note: Aramaic spelling uses an "e" .. thus "Yeho"
שֵׁם shem = name
יָהּ Yahh= Yahh (pronounced Jah)
Jhn 5:43 “I have come in My Father's name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, you will receive him.
Yahh-uva (uva = love)
transliterated Yahuveh (Jehovah)
Yahh-shua (shua = saves)
note: Aramaic spelling uses an "e" .. thus "Yeho"
Exd 3:14 God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"
hayah 'asher hayah ..
"I am who/that I am" ..
'asher is translated as: which, who, that and how
meaning using who: I'm eternal
meaning using that: I exist because I exist ..
an eternal God in the prior sense (having no beginning) would thus not have a reason for being since no stimuli brought Him into existence .. He just always was ..
this like Shaddai, would also be a proper name ..
Isa 42:8 "I am the LORD (Yĕhovah) that is My name; I will not give My glory to another, Nor My praise to graven images.
hayah as a "single word" is not a true verb
and is understood as: I am, he is, they are, we were etc ..
the ancient Hebrew language cannot be broken down like the English language can ..
ancient Hebrew words do not usually express a single item but most often incorporate generalities ..
note: modern Hebrew rules cannot be applied to ancient Hebrew ..
example: if you want to talk about a desert, the ocean or the sky, the word shamayim can be used for all of them .. much of ancient Hebrew sentence structure was left to the hearer to "figure it out" as the orator spoke ..
perhaps God outsmarts them all ..
and hayah is "two words" and actually was meant as ha-Yah ..
ha'Yah = THE YAHH
hay'ah = IN & FROM
in Hebrew "ha" means "the" .. and God's name is "Yah" ..
so ha-yah I do not believe is not a verb but a proper noun here ..
and 'asher is the verb ..
ha-yah 'asher ha-yah = the Yah that is the Yah
hayah 'asher hayah ..
"I am who/that I am" ..
'asher is translated as: which, who, that and how
meaning using who: I'm eternal
meaning using that: I exist because I exist ..
an eternal God in the prior sense (having no beginning) would thus not have a reason for being since no stimuli brought Him into existence .. He just always was ..
this like Shaddai, would also be a proper name ..
Isa 42:8 "I am the LORD (Yĕhovah) that is My name; I will not give My glory to another, Nor My praise to graven images.
hayah as a "single word" is not a true verb
and is understood as: I am, he is, they are, we were etc ..
the ancient Hebrew language cannot be broken down like the English language can ..
ancient Hebrew words do not usually express a single item but most often incorporate generalities ..
note: modern Hebrew rules cannot be applied to ancient Hebrew ..
example: if you want to talk about a desert, the ocean or the sky, the word shamayim can be used for all of them .. much of ancient Hebrew sentence structure was left to the hearer to "figure it out" as the orator spoke ..
perhaps God outsmarts them all ..
and hayah is "two words" and actually was meant as ha-Yah ..
ha'Yah = THE YAHH
hay'ah = IN & FROM
in Hebrew "ha" means "the" .. and God's name is "Yah" ..
so ha-yah I do not believe is not a verb but a proper noun here ..
and 'asher is the verb ..
ha-yah 'asher ha-yah = the Yah that is the Yah
I agree .. but I think it is more Hebrew tradition orientated .. as an act of respect ..
but Paul did not say protoktisis ..
prototokos first issued is not first created ..
how do you reconcile "begat" .. that neither is "created" ..
Your acting as if they dont have similar meanings. Just like I said. Christ was the first issued magazine. All other creations are the later issues. You cant focus on the words all the time. Context is just as important.
Well this act of "respect" blinds people to what God's name is and leads them to think it is Jesus. Then when they realise God has an actual name they try to rationalize him and Jesus as the same because they dont wanna worship a God they never knew of. This is my opinion.
Jhn 5:44 “How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and you do not seek the glory that is from the one and only God?
above John says there is one God ..
if Jesus was a separate God, then in fact have more then one God ..
below John says the "only begotten God" (meaning Jesus)
Jhn 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him
monogenēs = only son (root/heir)
theos = God
(begat) and tokos (issued) .. both are signifying a spirit procreation NOT a creation ..
above John says there is one God ..
if Jesus was a separate God, then in fact have more then one God ..
below John says the "only begotten God" (meaning Jesus)
Jhn 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him
monogenēs = only son (root/heir)
theos = God
(begat) and tokos (issued) .. both are signifying a spirit procreation NOT a creation ..
and context means nothing if built upon erroneous meanings ..
I agree .. they both are very important ..
what do you do with these verses ???
the Apostles understood there was ONLY ONE GOD ..
Jud 1:25 to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.
1Ti 1:17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.
Jhn 5:44 “How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and you do not seek the glory that is from the one and only God?
the Apostles understood there was ONLY ONE GOD ..
Jud 1:25 to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.
1Ti 1:17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.
Jhn 5:44 “How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and you do not seek the glory that is from the one and only God?
When the bible says only true God, It's signifiying that their is only one God we should devote ourselves to. There is clearly other gods because the bible mentions them such a Satan Baal ect.
How do you explain the whole chapter of John 17? It wouldnt make sense for Jesus to dedicate a whole chapter to talking to himself.
yet here John turns right around and call Jesus God ..
Jhn 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him
See how it says through Jesus Christ right. Remember Jesus came on Earth to do his Fathers will. This is similar to when Jehovah told Moses he would be like God and Aaron would be his prophet. God used Jesus to fulfill his will. God is the direct Savior because it was he who wanted it to be done. Jesus was necceasry for fulfilling the will of God. Just like if you order a pizza. The delivery driver is the mediator between you and Pizza Hut. Pizza Hut sends the order of delivery. The driver fulfills the order of delivery.