Jesus Lower Than the Angels?

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by SweetSurrender, Oct 9, 2008.

  1. Jesus Lower Than the Angels?

    I was reading the book of Hebrews tonight and came upon a question. In the first chapter, verse 5, "For to which of the angels did He ever say:
    "You are My Son, today I have begotten You" Then it goes and says in the second chapter, verse 7, "You made him a little lower than the angels. . ." I noticed the "him" is not capitalized. Is this talking about someone else who was made lower than the angels. It's confusing. Why would it say Jesus is God's Son and then say He is lower than the angels? I hope it is a simple answer and I'm just not seeing something.
  2. Oh boy. Here we go... grin

    The word 'angels comes from the Hebrew 'elowahh which means "God"

    "You made him a little lower than the God. . ."
  3. You mean in this instance only? In translation? And, what did you mean "Oh boy. Here we go... grin ?

    Is this going to cause some kind of big disagreement? I hope not, just wanting to understand what it meant.

    So, why didn't it just say Jesus was made a little lower than God? And Jesus was always in existence wasn't He? He created the world, did He not? It sounds like He was made. How can He be lower than God, when He is God? :eek:
  4. Most often the translators were restricted by language and experience. Some languages have words that other languages have no word for.. I can't think of an example right off. Some words were never translated so have no meaning in our language. English. I can give you an example here. 'Christ'. In English the word has no meaning at all. It does not exist in english. Hence it winds up being used as Jesus' last name. Its not a name at all though. It means 'anointed One and His anointing'. 'Light' In most usages does not mean illumination, but it means "a revelation of God'.
  5. i thinks the bible needs another book for footnotes.
  6. Man was created in Gods image to live in total depedence upon Him.That is why Jesus had to bacome a man.The life He lived on earth He lived in entire dependence upon His Loving Father.He set us the ultimate example of humility longsuffering all that is praise worthy is only found in Him.The biblev says He learnt obedience through those things He suffered and with loud cries called on His Father to save Him from death.Death could not hold Him down He is risen.He truly is the first born of all creation.Jesus truly is the Christ the Son of the Living God and i love Him so.Dear Jesus i lay my life down before Your throne of grace teach me Your ways you are the way.
  7. The Hebrews is referring to a passage in Psalm 8. I quote the passage and bold the important part below.

    Psalm 8

    To the Chief Musician. On the instrument of Gath.[a] A Psalm of David.

    1 O LORD, our Lord,
    How excellent is Your name in all the earth,
    Who have set Your glory above the heavens!

    2 Out of the mouth of babes and nursing infants
    You have ordained strength,
    Because of Your enemies,
    That You may silence the enemy and the avenger.

    3 When I consider Your heavens, the work of Your fingers,
    The moon and the stars, which You have ordained,
    4 What is man that You are mindful of him,
    And the son of man that You visit him?

    5 For You have made him a little lower than the angels,
    And You have crowned him with glory and honor.

    6 You have made him to have dominion over the works of Your hands;
    You have put all things under his feet,

    The scriptures is talking about mankind in relation to Angels and other animals.

    Hebrews then refers to Jesus:

    Hebrews 2

    But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honour, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.

    This refers to Jesus, The Word of God becoming flesh to be able to become the atonement offering for the sins of those who would believe Him.

    The angels are angels the first part refers not to Jesus but to mankind. The second part confirms that Jesus came as a flesh and blood man. He was perfect but in form He was a man and in that respect for a short time a little lower than the angels.

    All Praise The Ancient of Days
  8. It does... Strong's Concordance heh ;)
  9. We should note that angels are created beings. Paul in Colossians 1:16 makes it clear that they were created by the Son. (Jesus). "For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him". Thus our Lord was made lower than those whom he created - for us and for our Salvation. Praise His name.
  10. Amen Adstar well put :)
  11. Adstar summed it up very good ... Thanks

    Psalm 8:5; Hebrews 2:7; Hebrews 2:8
  12. as when michael had words with satan he said let the Lord,rebuke you.
  13. Amen Smellycat. There's a slithering LIE out today that say's,

    'You can be like God, you're just like Him, after all, He made you to be like Him, didn't He? Surely God is love and is tolerant, He can't live without you, can He? Command Him to do things for you, He gave you authority and power, didn't He? If you command Him doesn't that just mean you're saying it with faith? And was Jesus really greater than a man? Isn't he just a doormat to wipe your sins on, and because He's faithful doesn't He have to forgive you?'

    Well indeed! the Archangel Michal said to Satan "The Lord Rebuke You!" And notice what was said of the proud, evil one in Isaiah:

    How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, you who weakened the nations! For you have said in your heart: "I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation on the farthest sides of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High." (Isa 14.12-14)

    Remembering of our Lord Jesus Christ, who is the Author and Perfector of our faith in Him!:
    The Deity of Jesus Christ
    1(A)In the beginning was (B)the Word, and the Word was (C)with God, and (D)the Word was God.

    2He was in the beginning with God.
    3(E)All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
    4(F)In Him was life, and the life was (G)the Light of men. 5(H)The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not [a]comprehend it.

    Verese to hide in our heart:

    Deuteronomy 4:2
    Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

    "For My hand made all these things, Thus all these things came into being," declares the LORD. "But to this one I will look, To him who is humble and contrite of spirit, and who trembles at My word. Isaiah 66:2

    "This is love: not that we have loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the atoning sacrifice for our sins." 1 John 4:10

    Brothers and sisters in Christ, guard your hearts.
  14. Let us take heed to these verses also from John chapter 5:

    37And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

    38And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
    39Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
    40And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
    41I receive not honour from men.
    42But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
    43I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 44How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
  15. The word 'kenosis' is used to summarize this discussion. He emptied himself of his deity. This doesn't mean that he ceased to be God, but that he chose not to be omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient, etc while in the flesh, in order to be tempted in every way as we are. If he had used one ounce of deity to resist temptation, he could not be the redeemer kinsman.

    If you meditate upon the kenosis of Christ, you start to realize that everything he did, he did in the flesh as a man. And it is his life as a man that puts us to shame and judges us.

    John 3 says that judgment happened when the light came. And John 1 says that the life of Christ is the light.

    The word for angel means messenger. He also was made lower than the other messengers by becoming the servant of all through his death for all.
  16. Amen

  17. When the Bible translater translated this scripture they opted out here and instead of saying "Elohim, God", they put [Angels].
    It should read.
    "Thou hast made Him a little lower then God"
  18. Psalm 8:5 (KJV) For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

    Hebrews 2:7 (KJV)
    Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:

    Hebrews 2:9 (KJV)
    But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

    What's the question again?
  19. "Christ is the sovereign of the universe. An understanding of Christ requires that we acknowledge Him not only as our humiliated Savior, but also as our exalted Lord." John MacArthur

    Ephesians 1:20-22
    "...which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church"

    Acts 4:10-12
    "Let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead--by this name this man stands here before you in good health. He is the STONE WHICH WAS REJECTED by you, THE BUILDERS, but WHICH BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone. And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

    Jesus Briefly Humbled

    "But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone." Hebrews 2:9

    "who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him." 1 Peter 3:22

    John 1

    The Word Became Flesh

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.
    Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it. John 1:1-5 see the rest of John 1

    Jesus never ceased being God, He is God.
    He took off all of His rights as God and laid them down, we, who are not God, try to pick them up and use them. We are by nature rebellious. And we were formerly enemies of God, that is prior to Christ reconciling us to God.

    Here's some great passages that declare the truth that Jesus humbled Himself as a servant, but was and is, and always will be God. In the Trinity or Godhead He is the Son.

    "Hear O Israel: the Lord our God, the Lord is one." ( Mark 12:29)

    "I and the Father are one." ( John 10:30)

    "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you know me, you will know my Father also." ( John 14:6-7)

    But Jesus answered them, 'My Father is working still, and I am still working.' This was why the Jews sought all the more to kill him, because he not only broke the sabbath, but also called God his own Father, making himself equal with God. ( John 5:16-18)

    "Whoever hates me hates my Father also." ( John 15:23)

    "If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me; but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father." ( John 10:37-38)

    "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the Father who dwells in me does his works." ( John 14:10)

    "Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing on his own, but only what he sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, the Son does likewise. The Father loves the Son and shows him all that he himself is doing; and he will show him greater
    works than these, so that you will be astonished." ( John 5:19-20)

    "Call no one your father on earth, for you have one Father - the one in heaven. Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Messiah." ( Matthew 23:9-10)

    "The Father judges no one but has given all judgment to the Son, so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Anyone who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him." ( John 5:22-23)

    "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now I am here. I did not come on my own, but he sent me." ( John 8:42)

    "All things have been handed over to me by my Father; and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, or who the Father is except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him." ( Luke 10:22)

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