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Jesus is the WORD of GOD

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by univac, Aug 2, 2009.

  1. Jesus is the WORD of GOD

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. (John 1:1-3 NIV)

    Unlike the Gospel as presented by Matthew, Mark and Luke, the Apostle John—in a prelude to the visions he would later recorded for us in the book of Revelation, opens his narrative of the life and ministry of Jesus Christ with a glimpse behind the veil of eternity, and a heavenly vision of Jesus before He was Jesus—as He existed before the creation of the material universe—or even before the angelic realm was created.

    And in a paradoxical premise that confounds our finite minds, John declares that, prior to His incarnation in the flesh, He both WAS God, and was WITH God.

    What did John mean? How could God be with God? And why is He called “the Word?”

    Most assume that the Son of God was originally God the Son, so it’s curious that John refers to the pre-incarnate Son as the Word (logos in the Greek text), which, when used with the definite article as here, always appears in the context in which John here uses it. Logos, the equivalent of our English “word,” is rendered as such in virtually all versions of the Bible, and is defined in Strong’s as:

    From G3004; something said (including the thought); by implication a topic (subject of discourse), also reasoning (the mental faculty) or motive; by extension a computation; specifically (with the article in John) the Divine Expression (that is, Christ):—account, cause, communication, X concerning, doctrine, fame, X have to do, intent, matter, mouth, preaching, question, reason, + reckon, remove, say (-ing), shew, X speaker, speech, talk, thing, + none of these things move me, tidings, treatise, utterance, word, work.
    As you can see, logos can denote both a thought or idea as it exists in the mind, and such a thought or idea as expressed. So why did John use “the Logos” to describe the pre-incarnate Jesus? What’s the connection?

    To help you understand the concept of logos, and what John sought to convey to his readers, consider this: the words you are reading at this very moment originally existed as thoughts in my mind. They were invisible, unknown, and unknowable to you.

    But, because I wanted to communicate those thoughts, I expressed them as words. You now know exactly what those thoughts are, because they have been expressed in a tangible form. That's the basic concept of "logos"-- a thought made known by communicating it.

    In a similar way, God is invisible, ethereal Spirit, and would—like thoughts, be completely unknown to us if He had not chosen to reveal Himself through His Word. What we know about God and His plan of Salvation, we learned either from the Bible, from someone teaching from it, or by personal revelation. Either way, all knowledge of God comes from the revelation of Himself through His Word.

    Consider that Abraham once believed in the false gods that were worshipped in Ur, and knew nothing about the true God until He chose to reveal Himself to him. And thank God that He did—that communication forever changed the course of both human history, and our ultimate destiny. Thank God for His mercy.

    At any rate, this is a basic analogy of the Word of God—the divine Expression—the means by which He always expresses and reveals Himself. It has always been so:

    It was the Word by which the angels beheld God’s glory on the throne of Heaven, long before the worlds were made; it was the Word whom men saw as the Lord in OT times (which is why, in John 8:56, Jesus told the Jews that Abraham had rejoiced to see His day ); and it was the same Word whom people saw and heard as the man, Jesus Christ.

    Every time God has ever been seen or heard, it was by means of the Word of God—the visible image of the invisible God. (Col 1:15) It was the Word from Whom Adam hid in a garden called Eden, it was the Word who sweated out blood in the garden of Gethsemane, and it is the Word that John sees returning as King of kings and Lord of Lords. (Rev 19:11-16)

    This then, is the Word John sees as both being God and being with Him. And that manifestation of the glory of God, John declares, became flesh, and dwelled among men, (John 1:14) and now represents the invisible God in a permanent form as His Son, Jesus, which is what John meant when he said:

    No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. (John 1:18)

    Yet, how do reconcile this statement with the claims by men in the OT—like Abraham, Jacob and Moses—to have seen God?

    Both statements are true. No one has ever seen the invisible Spirit of God; yet He has indeed manifested Himself to some, when He chose to do so, by means of a visible form: the Word.

    If you will indulge another crude analogy, consider this: you have never seen your own face.

    Nope, you’re wrong—a reflection doesn’t count. Your reflection represents an exact likeness of you, certainly; but it is only an image. If your nose itches, scratching the one in the mirror just doesn’t help, does it? The mirror is but an exact representation of what we are unable to see.

    In a similar way, while no one has ever seen God, some have seen that which completely and fully represents Him--a divine “mirror image.”

    That, my friends, is Who Jesus is: the Word--the exact likeness of God, now and forever manifest in glorified flesh. The Scriptures leave no doubt about the fundamental truth that God had foreordained His Word to become His Sacrificial Lamb, long before the creation of the earth:

    “I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.” (Psalms 138:2)

    “Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:” (Heb 10:5)

    “And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” (Rev 13:8)

    Anyone who denies that Jesus is the manifestation of God in the flesh, demonstrates an ignorance of the Bible, for an abundance of Scripture testifies to that very truth:

    Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: (Col 1:15)

    And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. (1 Tim 3:16)

    To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. (2 Cor 5:19)

    Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; (Heb 1:3)

    John tells us in John 1:1-3 that it was the Word Who created all things, and that nothing that was made was made without Him. (Note that since God Himself had no beginning, the one referred to in John 1:1 must refer to the “beginning” as far as we are concerned: the Creation of the material

    The first chapter of the book of Genesis refers to this same "beginning," and illustrates in an amazing way, what John meant: (You may have a different perspective of the Word after this)

    Note that each of the creative acts is preceded by the words, “and God said…”

    That's because, at each act of Creation, the Will and Purpose of God was expressed, made manifest, and fulfilled by the power of His spoken Word. He literally SPOKE Creation into existence. No wonder John said the Word created all things.

    Once you understand that the Word is God, has always been with God, and that Jesus is
    that Word robed in humanity, you can see what Jesus actually meant when He stated that He was
    sent forth and proceeded from the Father to fulfill His Will:

    Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and
    came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me (John 8:42)

    Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me, and to finish His work. (John 4:34)

    For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. (John 6:28)

    In Isaiah 55:8-11, the prophet beautifully illustrates exactly what Jesus meant:

    For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
    For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my
    thoughts than your thoughts. For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and
    returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may
    give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
    So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but
    it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it

    That's Jesus! The same Word--the divine Expression of God,issued forth from God's Spirit and called
    forth the universe out of nothing; appeared as God throughout the OT period, as He prepared a people for Himself; and nearly 2000 years ago, that same Word—robed in the humanity of Jesus Christ, revealed the Mind, Will and Purpose of God as He prepared to become the sacrificial Lamb of God.

    The same visible expression of God’s divine Essence and Being that has existed with Him for eternity is now and forever enshrined in a glorified temple of humanity. We can see in the book of Revelation how God and Jesus are eventually merged into one.

    And it is--appropriately enough--the Apostle John who sees this eternal temple--this miraculous fusion of God and man--which he refers to as “God and the Lamb” in the midst of the New Jerusalem:

    “And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.”
    (Revelation 21:22)

    One throne is shared by God and the Lamb--for God is IN the Lamb--in Whom also the face of God will be seen by His people for all eternity:

    And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and
    his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their
    foreheads.(Rev 22:3-4)
  2. Amen to that. :shepherd:
  3. Thanks son . And going back to " In the beginning' .... If I can believe the first verse of the Bible , I can believe the whole book .

    We begin with " the heavens and the earth" but then God chooses to deal with the earth , not the heavens : the theme from then on is God's program on earth . Having chosen the earth , God now bypasses the angels ( fallen angels included) and elects to deal with man.

    So in my estimation .... look how important we are to God .

    God's purpose was to reveal to man the fact that he was devinely created , that he suffered a fall , and that God proceeded redemption.

    This to me shows God's eternal and everlasting love for us .
  4. Hi Dusty. Actually, your estimation is biblical. We are more important than angels.

    For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham's descendants
    Heb 2:16
  5. Excellent , John .... Thanks .... God Bless.
  6. Thanks for the post!

    Nice post there "univac". I follow (& agree with) about 95% of what you are saying. The remaining "5%" is out of my lack of my understanding and not yet having a concrete conclusion for myself one way or the other (the 5% doesn’t appear to be something necessary to understand fully anyhow, so no big deal, I'm just trying to be honest here).

    I am currently in debate (not on this site) with some "Bible believers" who claim Christ was not God in the flesh. This post has given me more confidence in my position & I thank you for your time and effort of putting this post together. I now have a little more "ammunition" to support my side of the discussion. I believe the "ammunition" I have provided is enough already but it seems the more "ammunition" I have the better because I'm still not yet getting through to the people I'm conversing with.

    Thanks again for the post! Very insightful!
  7. in the begining God said humans had corrupted his way,when Christ came his way was told.Christ is the word of God.:)
  8. Gen 1:3-5

    " And God Said " The Divine person speaking here is the Logos or Word of God like univac said .... Jesus , which was in the begnning with God , and was God ( John 1:1-3)

    The entire trinity , not just the Father , had a role in creation .

    The Son is the powerful Word ; the Holy Spirit ( ruah ) " breath " took an active role in the work of creation .

    So as we go back to " In the beginning God created " .... It is a real and awesome beginning .

    Other ancient religions , when speaking of creation, say that it came about out of something that was already there.

    They see history as ocurring forever in cycles . The Bible looks at history in a linear way , with a God - given goal . God had a plan in creation , and he will carry it out.
  9. Hey jaerod .... what do they make of this verse then ? It is as plain as the nose on my face :D

    John 1:1
    [ The Word Became Flesh ] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
  10. Thanks Univac. Is God the Father now dwelling in the physical form of a man, in heaven? Also how did Stephen I think it was, see the Son of Man standing on the right hand of God if the Father and Son are one? I've often wondered about that. Thanks for your help.
  11. Christ says God is spirit,and nobody has seen him but the son.God gave Christ spirit without restraint,so Christ is the son but also has the father in him.ie linked by spirit,holy spirit.best way i can explain would be like this.spirit world is a kingdom,flesh world is a kingdom.bothe kingdoms are completely diffrent with diffrent boundaries.the holy spirit is which links the kingdoms and translates what is happening in both kingdoms.diffrent but 1.satan thought he could take advantage of this.
  12. Yeah, I brought up John 1:1 & John 1:14 (as well as much more supporting scripture that Jesus was God in human form). In the following I'm listing the rebuttal I received (I'll name them "Person X"). Person X's rebuttal doesn't "hold any water" with me of course (I think it would be a safe bet Person X feels the same way about my reasoning too).

    Person X stated: "John.1:1, doesn't prove GOD sent Himself? The Scriptures say, GOD sent his Son, not Himself.

    Jesus himself said, he was sent by GOD.

    Jesus said, I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word, and believes in Him(GOD) that sent me has eternal life. John.
    So, according to Jesus we have to believe in the one that sent Jesus.
    (The GOD of The OT, Yahweh)

    Jesus understands his role as The Christ(Messiah), the one GOD sent forth. John.17:3"

    I have recently removed myself from the discussion (which is not on this site) as there seems to be a lot of angry attacking from both sides of the debate. I tried to disarm the hostility between the debaters in a polite manner but they continue to attack each other very harshly :(.
  13. Jesus Was God.........

    Jesus Was God?

    Yes, and no.................. (No debate, just study it.)

    They are two separate individuals that have two different seats in Heaven.

    Jesus spent a lot of time praying to God, and doing what he said. So thats two different people. Jesus was here at the begging but laid down all his power and became as man.

    Php 2:6 Who, although being essentially one with God and in the form of God [ possessing the fullness of the attributes which make God God], did not [c] think this equality with God was a thing to be eagerly grasped [d] or retained,

    Php 2:7 But stripped Himself [of all privileges and [e] rightful dignity], so as to assume the guise of a servant (slave), in that He became like men and was born a human being.

    IT Goes Deeper than this.

    Jesus at one time could see all the things of the spiritual Realm and Natural realm. When He became a child, all those memories of who He was were locked inside his spirit. He now had a flesh mind just like you and I with no memories. He had no understanding on how to get those memories out or that they were even there. He became Human and that is all He was.

    As a child He sensed something was different about him. He was born from the Word of God, so His spirit was "Born again." He was yet filled with the Holy Ghost. He was drawn to the things of God. Satan had no idea who this Child was because there was nothing special about him. Satan tried to get him in a wide ranging Sweep but Jesus escaped to Egypt.

    When He got Older, Jesus begin to study, and study, and study. The Word of God consumed Him and he wanted to know what the elders of the synagogues knew.

    Jesus Was not yet Perfect!!! (No debate, study folks.... just study.)

    Luk 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom (in broad and full understanding) and in stature and years, and in favor with God and man.

    Jesus had not gotten God's full favor or even mans. He was not perfected yet. He had to increase himself, even though in the past He was at one time the, I AM, full of unlimited Power.

    Latter, Jesus became filled with the Holy Ghost. Now he had the ability of Heaven in Him that is no different that you or I have. It's the same Holy Ghost. It is said He had the Spirit without measure, but it does not say we can not also be so full the same way.

    We must remember though. He is now a Man filled with God. He was not anymore special than what is available to us today. His senses were still limited to what he could see and what God revealed to Him. This is why he said he only speaks what His father speaks and only does what he See's his father do. If God did not show him, then He could not do it.

    Now Jesus was God, and as God. However that had all been in the past. He was no different than His father in Heaven, but had been human for awhile with only his memories of that. He knew who He was, but it was not the same as sitting on the right hand of God. This is why he was tempted in all areas and passed every test.

    It would not be a temptation if He had to struggle not to do it. Sex, Homosexuality, theft, lying, He had to pass all these as a man with less tools to use that what is available to us today. (Heb 2:18) To make it worse, He was not sitting at the right hand of God interceding for himself. He did all this under the LAW!!!!

    Heb 4:15
    For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

    Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

    Jesus suffered, but He refused everytime temptation came.

    For those that think Jesus walked around doing anything he wanted and Healing who he wanted is WRONG!!!! He did not have unlimted power, but followed the direction of the Father in Heaven, as we should also.

    People dimish what He actually accomplished as a child to adult. They make him out to be some Icon, that had super powers and that is far from what He was. He was a man, filled with the Holy Ghost and still did what you or I could not do, and we have with more to work with.

    This is why it was legal to get us back from Satan. If He was all God with God powers then it would not have been legal.

    Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

    Now think about How great He is. He had to do all this without the bennifit of being a God, but only a Man. This is why He deserves the title Lord because he went though all this for you and me. Even to starting over as a mere human.

    Be blessed.........
  14. When I said Jesus WAS God, it was just a matter of semantics. I posted the reply because the actual scripture (John1:1) was brought up in the discussion I was having with Person X & thought I would cut & paste the actual response I received when such scripture was sited.

    Person X does not believe in the Trinity & thinks it is heresy to say Jesus is/was God in any way (separate, lowered &/or the same) & anyone who claims this is either ignorant or lying.

    I agree Jesus lowered Himself (Philippians 2:5-8, Hebrews 2:9) from His former position which He had before He was manifested in the flesh.

    I did not go into any further detail of the discussion with Person X here (on CFS) as it took up about 14 pages of discussion on the site which the issue was being addressed.
  15. Interesting

    I realize for the immature these types of discussions are hard. The fact is we don't know everything.

    Jesus did pray to God, and sits next to God. Jesus intercedes for us before God, yet Jesus is God.

    The KJV says God was manifest in the flesh.

    1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

    Well.............. My post was long enough...... and the more we dig, we will get into other subjects where my knowledge would end.

    Be blessed
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  17. They say curiosity killed the cat. Hehe, well I'm dying to ask you WordoFaith the biblical verses for this statement, if you don't mind.

    Thanks :)
  18. Jaerod .... some more information to tell your friend Mr X ... Jeus said to see me is to see God . John 14 : 9 ...... Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'

    I was just reading some of the writings of Martin Luther and will credit this message from him ( So do not think I am so good to wrote this :) )

    So to quote Martin Luther :

    We should carefully guard against separating Christ and God . This is what Philip was doing here . He ignored Christ and looked for God in heaven .... What else is this than unbelief and a secret denial of God ? Christ had to correct Philip in order to tear him away from such a misconception . He said " Philip, why are you trying to separate the Father from me ? With your thoughts you're climbing up into the clouds and leaving me here on earth talking uselessly . Don't you hear what I am saying ? Whoever sees me , sees the Father too ? Don't you believe that I am the Father and the Father is in me ?"

    Those are loving yet serious words from our Lord , for he can"t tolerate fluttering around in uncertainty . Christ wants us firmly tied to him and his Word so that we don't search for God anywhere else except in him .

    Martin Luther


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