I've lost the plot

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by boltardy, Oct 7, 2014.

  1. I got out of a bad spell of drinking in September. I have mentioned before following one of those dos I'm vulnerable for a month or so. Things have not got well. The straw that broke the camels back this time was a PC breaking down following a routine update it wouldn't boot.

    It does lots of things, eg. all our pop3 email is pulled to a local IMAP server, it does local DNS, it runs some my home automation code so even working the lights in this house is more complicated with out it, etc. It wasn't something I could leave alone until I felt better. I upgraded the whole system from opensuse 12.3 to 13.1 and after quite a fight (the upgrade turned out to be far from straight fowrard) got things woking, then I ran a routine update and bang, it seems both distributions have the same (fakeraid) problem... Anyway I reinstalled yet another time and at least have things like email and the lights working for all of us.

    That's the background this time round. The problem is again that I turned to my old (not) friend to cope with it all and I'm in big trouble again. I can't seem to put the brakes on.

    Maybe that will come but I'm not at the moment. I'm not finding the will. The run prior to this had been brilliant. It lasted about a year and we had recently tried to start going to church again. Following the first break down, I'd even got myself back to reading the bible again, starting with the Gospels, as part of a daily routine. Now I'm even battling "that's what you will get for trying harder with God" thoughts.

    Please someone, tell me where the point is. I don't want to live this way but it's so difficult trying to live in the knowledge that, assuming I get out of it, that in a year or so time (if I last that long) I will react to some set of circumstances and I'll be back in this circle. I remember once when on a detox course really feeling like throwing myself in the river and a thought came to me something like "there is point and through all this, I have not left your side" and yes, faint as it can seem, I think one has to keep holding on to a belief that Christ will see you through even the darkest of days.

    I'm struggling even to do that today though. I'm not at the moment feeling suicidal but I'm feeling why even bother with the fight with alcohol, why bother with God when things always end up like this.

    Please someone, encourage me.
  2. You need to focus on the damage you are doing. There is nothing wrong with alcohol. I have a gaming addiction. There is nothing wrong with games. But I can see the damage from excessive time wasting on my wife and kid. My kid started talking to himself....'''Daddy says Ethan can play outside, Ethan says thank you to daddy and goes to play outside'' :giggle: :(....and my wife could hardly greet me when I come home as she ended up getting her own addictions on the pc too.

    What effect is drinking having on those around you? You mentioned no church. You have to see that as a serious issue. The day can easily come when your wife's selfishness > selflessness. Not saying she will divorce you, but selfishness / flesh returning comes from lack of church / fellowship / prayer and equals problems that are worse then alcohol cravings. Problems that don't easily go away. 'Our kids and wives lose it / go mad' and not to mention the rest of our family, brethren and unsaved we affect / neglect.

    I am reminded from a movie I watched that it is the ''love of Christ'' that compels us. Not His love for us, we know that. But His love for others. Christianity 101 is loving others. That love is tied to our love for Jesus / a depth we sank to when first saved. Tap into that and you will have all the strength you need to moderate your alcohol intake.

    Good luck and praying for you!
    Major, boltardy and Zoe says Amen and like this.
  3. Thanks KJ.

    Just to mention my home circumstances. I am 54 and live with my parents. I had a very brief affair once but have never been married and have no kids. Still, these episodes do put a strain on the household and at least think when things are going well (say the 10 months of the year when I'm not in one of these episodes) I have a role, mostly I do the household maintenance. I think my parents both hit 80 next year. My mother is less mobile since she had a fall and dislocated her shoulder (movement didn't all come back) and she has a lot of pain (even though she's had a hip replacement) in her joints. She is the only one of the 3 of us that can drive and get us out places. My father has been impaired in some ways since a very serious stroke (he reacted to streptokainase they wrongly gave him, suspecting a heart attack, for what we believe was a Mennier's attack, he reacted and had a bleed they didn't really know how to stop). Somehow when we are all pulling together, we all manage to cover for the other's deficiencies (I also have had problems going into places like shops on my own). I'd not say anyone is completely indispensible but somehow, when all three of us are at our best, we are something approaching a well oiled machine. When I break down like this, it does affect others, both with their worry and that (sort of) one of the cogs in the wheel has broken.

    As I've said before, if I get out of it, I might go another 12 months without a problem. Then one day, after a few things going wrong I might hit another crisis point, get worked up and I'll not see reason. It's happened too often. The stage I'm at in my own cycle when it happens is one where I know I need to stop (I know that after the first day when I wake up the next morning) but finding the will and the control I need is another story. It's like some terrible force holds you there for a while and then one day all of a sudden, I'm released. I don't know how it make it happen but all of a sudden there is a definite sort of "switch" that turns on.

    It's not easy from there as (by this time experiencing some physical withdrawal symptoms and I have fitted a couple of times in the past so have to be careful) but (body holding out), cutting out a couple of cans every other day (following a reduction plan) is achievable. Learning how not to react in the first place when I reach my "sky is falling in and I'm stressed out" however is not something I've learned to master.
    KingJ likes this.
  4. Do not worry about the next 12 months, just take it one day at a time. The past is the past, the grace of God is awesome because he allows us to correct our mistakes from the past in the present day. The trick of the devil is to remind you what you did in the past and convince you that you will ultimately fail. But God gives us a Holy Spirit that is greater than sin and temptation. Remember you have this Spirit and that will strengthen you thru any situation. For when you are weak God is strong. Enjoy the day and do not be too hard on yourself. Jesus will forgive you, so you should forgive yourself also! I will be praying for you! God bless!
    Major, JG27_chili and boltardy says Amen and like this.
  5. There’s an easy fix, but not an easy answer to express so I hope you take the time to read and then reread this response. First, don’t think what’s happening to you is an isolated case, 1 Peter 4:12-19. Next, you’re in Romans 7, the “things I don’t want to do I do, and the things I want to do I don’t”. Paul yells out: “O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?” Thank God there’s another verse after this one and it’s the key to your problem: “I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.”

    As a Christian you’re a new creation, 2 Cor 5:17, but we still have to fight our minds. Time for some definitions: the mind isn’t the brain matter between our ears. Our brain is just a processor that executes commands we’ve learned over the years from the world. After processing events, it generates a conclusion, a judgment, about the just-experienced event. That judgment, right or wrong, is stored in our mind, that is, our bodies. (Research cellular memory.) So that’s just hearsay, or science mumbo-jumbo right? Well let’s go to the word of God.

    Proverbs 18:8 (KJV)
    The words of a talebearer are as wounds, and they go down into the innermost parts of the belly.

    So words are wounds. Words do hurt and they leave wounds. So we have the flesh, the old man (soul, mind, body), the word of God says, has been taught by the world all its life. Remember the little angel and the little devil on the shoulders of a guy on Saturday morning cartoons? Well sometimes that little devil is our own flesh speaking because of the training we’ve received or experienced. Those bad words (training, experience) are kept in our inward parts of our bodies. They sit there and fester and when the slightest bit of familiar nudging arrives, here come all the emotions, feelings, and thoughts from our previous judgments on the matter, reinforcing the negative.

    So what is one to do? Simple, lay hold of the truth of the word of God and ask the Lord to reveal these hidden words within us.

    Proverbs 20:27 (KJV)
    The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly.

    Psalms 44:21 (KJV)
    Shall not God search this out? for he knoweth the secrets of the heart.

    David called out to God for help:

    Psalms 139:23-24 (KJV)
    Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:And see if [there be any] wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.

    Once the Lord reveals to you your feelings, acknowledge them and send them away. When the feeling of incompetence comes, you say with your mouth:

    2 Peter 1:3-4 (KJV)
    According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that [pertain] unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

    Here it is, the truth, according to HIS power given to US ALL THINGS, through KNOWLEDGE! So now you must lay hold of this truth to be free and stay free. When those negative thoughts and feelings come up, you claim the TRUTH of God’s promises! Yes, it’s that simple. That’s what “forgive” meaning in Hebrew and Greek: to send away. “I don’t want those feelings anymore and by God’s power I have His promise that I am His, complete and whole.”

    2 Timothy 1:7 (KJV)
    For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

    YOU and ONLY you can take this information and apply it to your life. Information isn’t the problem most people face, but the lack of applying the truth to their lives. You can do it because the SAME Spirit that was in Jesus while He was on this earth as a Man is in YOU! Learn to listen to Him.

    1 John 2:27 (KJV)
    But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

    Now it’s up to you. What are you going to do with this template, this information? Are you going to apply it?

    2 Corinthians 3:18 (KJV)
    But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, [even] as by the Spirit of the Lord.

    The word of God is a mirror showing us our smudges and dirt. It’s up to you to clean it off by the washcloth of His promises! This is the war we wrestle with!

    2 Corinthians 10:3-6 (KJV)
    For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; ) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

    Strongholds are those stored negative thoughts, feelings, emotions, and YOU must capture every thought and cast it down. EVERY thought!
    KingJ, Major, JG27_chili and 1 other person say Amen and like this.
  6. Thanks both.

    Abdicate, the verse from Romans you quoted has had some sort of resonance to me for a few years now. The rest I will have to re read and ponder for a few days but I will try to take it in.
    Abdicate likes this.
  7. If I can do it boltardy so can you. Been there done that. What Abdicate posted is correct. I went through this a couple years ago. Admitting there is a problem is HUGE. That is the biggest step you or I can take. The rest gets easier in time. May God bless you abundantly :)
    boltardy likes this.
  8. Okay. So you made some bad choices, but you can fix it. Remember when you were in school and you were late on an assignment? Teachers would often let you make it up, right?!? This is the same thing!!

    I will assure you that I am NO expert, in fact I am probably the least qualified to give you advice. But here is some innocent advice.

    1. Decide where you are with God. By this I mean figure out where you stand, and where God stands. What you want, and what God wants.

    2. The religious session is a marvelous idea. Every morning remind yourself that you live for God.

    3. I haven't mastered the "DON'T FREAK OUT" thing too! But, I am working on it. What I have found helpful is find something positive (as in reading a book, the Bible, taking a warm bath, or going for a walk in the park) to relax yourself that you enjoy. Take everything one at a time. Back to the homework, when you have a lot of math, history, English, AND biology homework, thinking about it all together makes it seem like a lot more than it really is. Pick an easy place to start, such as in my case English. Once you get that done reward yourself with a five minute break or a song on the guitar:whistle:. Then do something else.

    4. "Now I'm even battling "that's what you will get for trying harder with God" thoughts." This is what concerns me most. You have NO reason to feel that way. In fact, you need it more that the goody-two shoes who have always been by God's side, and even they have doubted him at least once in their lives. I know this because I am one of those and I have had trouble holding my relationship with God. What happened in the past doesn't mean that you cannot have a relationship with God. Every morning remind yourself this.

    5. This is so cheesy but whatever. Find a Bible verse that speaks to YOU. Find a verse that is almost like God whispering in your ear, reminding you what you believe and what you have to do! Memorize it and when you feel low and upset recite it over and over to yourself.

    6. Also, if you have a small cross charm you can place it on a chain or something (or if you are Catholic use a rosary) and sleep with it. I do that and it helps me. I fall asleep praying, rather than thinking about my troubles. :sleep:

    I wish you the very best of luck! Post again to let us know how you do!! (y):);):X3:
    JG27_chili and boltardy say Amen and like this.
  9. I wrote this article http://abdicate.net/blog/?p=525 some time ago. It's along the same process, but maybe it'll help too.
    JG27_chili and boltardy say Amen and like this.
  10. I agree with my brothers advice to you. King and Abdicate have given excellent advice and I would encourage you to follow what that said.

    However, I am one who has always lived down in the mud and blood and beer of live. REALITY.

    I have over the years spoken with many men who are living just as you are. You are not going to like what I say to you but remember, YOU asked!

    Now, in your commentary and your profile you have not said anything about what kind of career, job or work that you are involved in.
    You said you do the maintenance for your parents but that is not a real career. What are YOU doing for yourself???? Are you living off their retirement and or social security? I am not being mean to you just trying to jolt you into real life.

    You see, your mother and father will die one day and then what will you do. That alone can cause depression and self loathing which leads to drinking alcohol and alcohol is a depressant so you are just pouring gasoline onto a burning fire my brother.

    You said you do not drive. LEARN how to drive! Your mother drives allow her to teach you. It just is not that hard to do and If my 14 year old granddaughter can learn so can you. JUST DO IT. Help yourself!!! The fact that you can not drive says a lot to me.

    You need to and must push yourself to be better than yesterday. Grow, learn and get your eyes off of your failures and onto the greater things in life my friend. Life is good and God is great but YOU must learn to do things for yourself.

    Allow me to tell you what a very wise man told me years ago. Son....God made birds and God made worms. But God did not make the worms crawl into the Birds mouth. The birds must go out get what God intended them to do. Now, you son......go get a job!

    My father told that to me when I was 14 years old. The next day I began to mow the yards of our neighbors.
    The point is....I did what God intended me to do.
  11. Repentance comes from God - not from within yourself....

    That's a hard thing to get your brain around.... YOU don't have the power or the will within yourself to succeed....

    Here's the thing... When you focus on your own efforts, lean more on your own will, stand in your own power - the only thing that will happen is that conspicuously, you will fail MORE - not less.....

    The FIRST thing is to get right with Jesus....
    Believe in Jesus with your Mind, your Emotion, and your Volition....

  12. Let's just go through these two. I do actually know how to a car drive but for some reason never took my test. If have driven 250 mile journeys accompanied with a legal driver. Yes, I should have taken my test years ago but the situation now it that I can not even get a provsional licence. Being classed as alcohol dependent and being allowed to drive is a no go and I'd suggest I'd need 2-3 years clear before the licensing authorities would grant be one. It's not something I could legally just do even if I wanted at the moment.

    Yes, my living is as you suggest and I am quite aware my parents will die one day.

    Fwiw, my own working history was a bit patchy but for a couple, I was forecourt attendent and car cleaner. Machine operation, later promoted to trainee tool setter/operator. Factory labourer and later promoted to the staff (white collar) at a major white good's co - I had an overblown job title but, hey I was "systems co-ordinator". I was basically responsible for material movements and our day to day use of the MRP system.

    Things turned bad though. I went trough the time when I finally believed God was for real. Unfortunately this coincided with me managing to get admitted to hospital and got the label schizophrenic (last time I saw a psychiatrist, she said she believed that was wrong but put it down to a one off psychotic episode). I probably compounded my work problems by resigning. Things changed there after I returned and they just piled more and more work on me. All to often I'm wondering where/when the next kickback will be.

    I reigned when I was expected to be in a meeting, get the back up phone lines to the mainframe working and organise a line trial (a procedure where we'd get QA, production engineering, a forman, etc. to see how things worked. Often at time it was used to get material not do drawing through production urgently as the lines would stop otherwise). They had a restructure after I left and my job remained but they passed a lot of the other work on to 2 other people. Design change control got an assistant and another dept took on the hardware (like the lines going down).

    I varied from there but when I've wanted to try with work , it's difficut to find people who want someone with my record. I also find it difficult at times to even face it. There are still people around who I know if asked about me would say "Jon, which one of him?" who I worked with. This, sadly was my introduction to Christianity. I shouldn't be but my "I'll try harder with God" swiftly became a world of fear and doubt.

    Possibly, in more recent times the closest I got to getting back, I was doing an HNC (sort of a next step below a degree) in business technology. I was getting distinctions in every unit but somehow (stupidly on reflection but...) got myself involved with this woman who I later found out had a boyfriend in prison, we had the church in for advice and I bought the genarational sin ideas, father had his stroke. I ceased to be able to concentrate on the course.

    Tales of woe maybe, bad moves on my part, at times for sure but all to often when I've really tried with something or things have seemed to be going well like there is a new start, things have just collapsed and things have gone wrong in almost "horror story" fashion.

    I get what Abdicate is saying. I also (actually know this one anyway) need to truely find a solid base with Christ but I can find it really hard just to even maintain a fraction of faith.
  13. There are medications for your medical problem. Are you taking them????

    I here what you are saying but they are just reasons that you are giving as to why you gave up.

    We can never give up or give in!! If you are to be something you must do something and the Bible tells us that we are to do everything to the glory of God.

    Not so my friend. GO TO CHURCH! Look for and find a Bible teaching church close to you and go there. You will meet and make friends and learn about God and fellowship with Christians.
  14. #14 boltardy, Oct 8, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2014
    I'm not sure where we are going with meds Major.

    Back when I was 27 (54 now) and the hospital do and got the label, I was on Sulpiride. I stopped that not believing it was medical but that was years ago and there were years of (relative) stability between that and the last 10 years with alcohol going out of control.

    Over the last 10 years, as well as my own gp, in hospital I have seen consultants and one was a consultant psychiatrist (my last detox was in a psychiatric hospital and I was there for 14 days) who found no medical reason to have me on anything. A bit I mention in a paragraph below came later.

    What I am on and take are vitamin B compound and thiamine, both prescribed on the recommendation of my GP.

    The other one is and (yes, I know it can be prescribed for other reasons...) is Pericyazine. I think I mentioned the circumstances of this one in another thread (it vs addictive things like diazipam) but it came from a time when I was getting really nervous on a course following a detox. I asked my GP if I could keep it up and he agreed. The instructions on the packet say "take 2-3 times a day when required". Where it can work for me is eg. if, I can plan on something I think will be stressful, eg. a Dr's appointment. I don't like them as they can for example sort of numb my senses with a musical instrument and find the way I take them limited as it takes an hour or so to kick in but on the other hand and for the limited as required use I have them for, they can work.
  15. And now the bad news........the meds you are taking for your mental condition DO NOTHING WHEN YOU DRINK ALCOHOL!!!
    They are rendered in-operative when you add alcohol to them. That is probably why you are not progressing and unable to get on in your life.

    I am familiar with Sulpiride and diazepam and they are heavy duty drugs for sure. However, they should give some level of ability BUT NOT IF YOU DRINK!
  16. Please re read my post????
  17. OK, I think I've sat on this one for long enough now and it does not appear that you are willing to acknowledge you may have misread.

    With mention of a schizophrenia diagnosis in the past, you seemed to assume meds. God is my witness that I stopped taking the sulpiride I was prescribed at the time back in 1987/88.

    Now to mention diazipam. God is my witness that I once had a short 3 day course of this to ease the last 3 days of a self reduction detox (ie. using it instead of alcohol) but I have not used it otherwise. God is also my witness that the only time I suggest it as a possible solution for a longer period of anxiety, this was rejected by the doctor.

    So I'm on neither of the drugs you are telling me don't mix with alcohol.

    God is also my witness that the only "mental drug" I am on is Pericyazine and that this is prescribed for anxiety and is on a PRN basis. A prescription of 42 tablets typically lasts me 4-6 months. I take it on days when I can plan ahead for something I know I will get anxious about, eg. Drs appointment, Job Centre Interview, etc.

    I say God is my witness as this is the truth of the situation.

    You won't like what I'm going to say now and I may well get barred for it but...

    Let's open this part by saying that clearly there are faults with me, there are problems and I don't consider myself completely right with God. Hopefully, in spite of doubts, fears and failures, I'm a work in progress but that's as far as it goes.

    Now lets look at the conclusions you have drawn. While there are things wrong, you seem as if you have been led by your own desires to attach reasons. I wouldn't say you are the worst - I think that prize goes to the one who started going in tongues and then proclaimed that my problems were caused by the many sexual relationships I'd had (I've only had one) - but I don't find you helpful.

    Of course you were right when you said I might not like what you had to say to me. That may well have been the case even if what you had to say was something I was able to recognise as being based on fact, although I'd at least hope that even if my initial reaction was anger, I might in the longer term have something I would be prepared to think about.

    As things stand though am am still feeling some degree of anger and feel tempted to outright call you another fraud. I do seem very slowly to be getting the message not to act in haste though and that my own (at times quick) temper, feelings of outrage, etc. are things I do still need to address in a better way than I manage.

    I have had to go through my thought processes in this thread to (I hope) make clear the ways I have been thinking but maybe I try a different way this time. I suppose my more tempered message could be "please don't be so hasty in jumping to conclusions".

    I'll pray for you and assume you will pray for me.
  18. Forgive of trying to help you. I have cared for several relative's with similar conditions which you yourself described and even now with my mother.

    Your own comment in the very 1st post was............"I got out of a bad spell of drinking in September."

    Your own comment in post #3 was............."
    It's not easy from there as (by this time experiencing some physical withdrawal symptoms and I have fitted a couple of times in the past so have to be careful) but (body holding out), cutting out a couple of cans every other day (following a reduction plan) is achievable.

    Then in comment #17 you said.......
    "Now to mention diazipam. God is my witness that I once had a short 3 day course of this to ease the last 3 days of a self reduction detox (ie. using it instead of alcohol) but I have not used it otherwise. God is also my witness that the only time I suggest it as a possible solution for a longer period of anxiety, this was rejected by the doctor.

    "So I'm on neither of the drugs you are telling me don't mix with alcohol.
    God is also my witness that the only "mental drug" I am on is Pericyazine and that this is prescribed for anxiety and is on a PRN basis. A prescription of 42 tablets typically lasts me 4-6 months. I take it on days when I can plan ahead for something I know I will get anxious about, eg. Drs appointment, Job Centre Interview, etc."

    The point is......YOU are the one who said you were on these medications to which I said...........Drinking alcohol renders them useless in helping you with your problem. I did not jump to any conclusions and only commented about what YOU had admitted to.

    Out of all that you want to be angry with me and call me a fraud. Again, excuse me for offering you help. It will not be repeated.

    God bless you and I hope you improve.


  19. Yes I was drinking but I don't see I say I was taking meds.

    Yes, a self reduction plan using alcohol involved reducing the consumption a bit at a time. I see no mention of meds there.

    No. you had said There are medications for your medical problem. Are you taking them????

    I opted to give my full history of "mental drugs", one was one that stopped in 1987/88, one which was for a 3 day period and one that is current and on a PMR basis.

    You picked on the two historical takings (one of which was for only three days and for the sole purpose of countering alcohol withdrawal symptoms) and advised me about (seemingly my) mixing those with alcohol.

    Oh dear...
  20. #20 boltardy, Nov 1, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2014
    Just to clarify one term especially as might have I wrote it incorrectly at some point. It should be PRN. To quote Wikepedia:

    Pro re nata is a Latin phrase meaning in the circumstances or as the circumstance arises. It is commonly used in medicine to mean as needed or as the situation arises. It is generally abbreviated to p.r.n. in reference to dosage of prescribed medication that is not scheduled; instead, the decision of when to administer the drug is left to the nurse, caregiver or the patient's prerogative. Such administration of medication is not meant to imply, and should never allow for, exceeding a given daily dosage.
    In my case, I can and sometimes do take 6 tablets in a day but more usually on a day when I feel the need, take 4. To take the lower figure on this and calling my average time between prescriptions as 5 months, there would be approx 10 out of a 150 day period where I could in theory be mixing alcohol with perizyazine.

    I'll also add that outside these bad periods with the drink, my average weekly consumption these days is probably about 2-3 pints a week. The last good spell lasted about 12 months.

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