Israel's role in the end times

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by Jeffin, Jul 19, 2006.

  1. Amen
     

  2. Dear John,
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Ro 4:13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith. [/FONT]

    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Ga 3:16 Now to Abraham were the promises spoken, and to his seed. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. [/FONT]

    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Heb 11:8[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva] By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. [/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]9[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva] By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: [/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]11[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva] Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. [/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]12[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva] Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable. [/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]13[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva] These all died in faith, [/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]F38[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva] not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. [/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]14[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva] For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. [/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]15[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva] And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. [/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]16[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva] But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city. [/FONT][/FONT]​

    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Abraham is the heir of the whole world through Christ, When you talk in terms of numbers described as sand of the sea and stars in the sky you are into numbers far far in excess of the total population of Israel. As you say it has to be the eternal kingdom of God at the end of time. It doesn't seem to fit anywhere else. The answer, I think, is linked into the covenants of God. Unfortunately I have never studied the Covenants so I can't offer an intelligent response. Perhaps some of the others have – I don't know. [/FONT]

    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]I did hear an introductory tape once a long time ago on Covenants. As I recall the land given to Israel was a part of one of the Covenants. Covenants are conditional and God tore up that Covenant because of their wickedness. When the Israelites came back from exile in Babylon, you never heard any more about the land and the tribes again like you did before. All you hear is the general term “Jew.†Well I'm just babbling and don't know what I'm talking about. So I'll leave this to others.[/FONT]

    [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Thanks for showing me this area of study that I somehow skipped over. I already bought a book on it written by Malcolm Smith who is a premiere writer on the Covenants of God. [/FONT]
     
  3. Covenant-promise

    Hi Jasher,

    You're on to something, the inheritance is heavenly, not earthly as the mass populist will not let go, and it is linked to the "covenants" of God.

    Firstly, its important to to note that The Old Testament sheds light upon the New, and the New upon the Old. Each is a revelation of the glory of God in Christ. Both present truths that will continually reveal new depths of meaning to the earnest seeker.

    Therefore, what is a covenant?

    The covenant and promise of God are one and the same! This is clearly seen from Galatians 3:17, where Paul states that to disannul the covenant would to make void the promise. In Genesis 17 we read that God made a covenant with Abraham to give him the land of Cannaan for an everlasting possession. Galatians 3:18 says that God gave it to him by promise.

    The covenant, that is, the promise of God is to give men the whole earth made new after having made them free from the curse. "For all promises of God find their Yes in Him."

    Going onto to "TWO COVENANTS" described in Galatians 4:21-31.

    The apostle Paul speaks of Hagar and Sarah: "These women are two covenants," and they both exist today! The two covenants are NOT matters of time, but a condition of the heart. They are experiential.

    The difference is between a "free woman" and a "salve." In the covenant from Sinai we ourselves have to do with the law alone, while in the covenant from above we have the law IN CHRIST. There are two cities and earthly Jerusalem refers to the Old covenant, which is in bondage, that is not the inheritance no matter how many pro literal land Israel books are written.

    The "new covenant" is free and is the "heavenly Jerusalem," which "God prepared" as described in Hebrews. It is the city for which Abraham looked, the "city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God." Heb. 11:10.

    There are a great many who build great hopes, all their hopes, on the present Jerusalem. Even Satan himself may have hand in the late 1940's and 60's. When people look to earthly Jerusalem, "to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted." 2 Cor. 3:14.

    In reality they are looking to Mount Sinai, described in Galatians 4:21-31, and the old covenant for salvation. It's not found there. "For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, and the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; ... but ye are come unto Mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the HEAVENLY Jerusalem" Hebrews 12:18-24.

    Whoever, according to the clear teaching of the covenant (promsie), looks to the present Jerusalem for blessings is looking to the old covenant to Mount Sinai, to slavery. "Jerusalem above is free." .... That would be free from sin.

    I have studied the covenant question for years and which and pray for people to look to the Bible for the answers on the covenant question, it will save a lot despair.

    Hence, when Mt. Zion is talked of in the OLD TESTAMENT, when going to the NEW TESTAMENT it is referring to the HEAVENLY JERUSALEM, not the EARTHLY according to the progressive and continual revelation of scripture.

    I could speak on this subject for hundreds of emails, but I hope it became a little clearer, any questions, disagreements feel free, covenant-promise@comcast.net

    John
     
  4. I overlooked your question. I live in semi beautiful North East Ohio. The area is extremely Democrat, catholic, Unionized, Socialistic, and depressed. (Is there a connection?) The unemployment rate is now 7 percent almost double the national average of around 4.5 percent. This has been a place of heavy industry over the past 70 years or so. A lot of the steel mills went out of business in the 70's and 80's. In 04 the price of steel almost doubled because of world demand - especially China. This gave the steel mills a boost and WCI steel in Warren recovered from bankrupcy and Copperweld Steel reopened this past year on a reduced capacity. I think Sharon Steel reopened but I'm not sure.

    So industry has recovered to some degree. GM has a huge plant in Lordstown, but has dropped from about 10,000 employees over the past 15 years to about 5 or 6,000 I think. Their existance is in jeopardy. Delphi which sprang off of GM is in bankrupcy and are renegotiating with the unions for lower wages. They may survive. The cost of living is fairly reasonable here compared to the East and West coasts.

    And now you know far more than you ever wanted to know. :)
     
  5. I AM THE TRUE ISRAELITE IN HEART by Holy Spirit
    The other day I was at a place without form and void; Darkness was all over the place.
    And I was thrown there without the removal of my navel cord; blood of my birth was all over me.
    No one had compassion for me. But God Almighty passed by me,
    And He looked at me and said "Let there be Light" in my Life.
    The Light has come: It is great! Now I am the true Israelite in heart because “I AM” had mercy on me.
    And He washed me and made me clean with the blood of Jesus Christ.
    He covered my nakedness with His glory.

    Today I am the true Israelite in heart,
    Since I have been circumcised in heart and He has poured His spirit on me.
    Now I am called Reuben by Him because I am His son.
    He has said I am his might and the beginning of strength,
    I am excellent dignity and excellent power of the Living God,
    Although I was unstable as water, He has said to me "Reuben! Live and don't die!"

    I am the true Israelite in heart,
    Because He has heard my cries in a desolate place and named me Simeon:
    He has said "I've heard your cries, so I will be attracted to you forever";
    He has said "You shall be called Levi, since I let my perfection and light be with you;
    And you shall put incense and burnt offerings before Me;
    With your heart, soul and Spirit you shall serve me and Worship Me"

    I am the true Israelite in heart,
    And I’ve got no doubt about it, as now I live by His spirit:
    When I wrestled with troops that raided my territory – He has told me I shall be called Gad;
    A troop that God Almighty has made to prevail and I am going to administer His justice;
    He has told me that I am Naphtali; I shall be satisfied with His favor and full of His blessings.

    I am the true Israelite in heart,
    Since He has removed my burden and given me a true rest;
    He has said "You are Issachar, because I've paid your wages of sin and have given you Salvation";
    He has told me that I shall be called Zebulun because I dwell in Him and He is in me;
    He is a place of safety and peace – He has said I shall rejoice in going out, because I shall call people to the Mountain of the Living God – Zion. And I'll offer sacrifice of righteousness,
    By pursuing righteousness and living a righteous Life before Him.

    I am the true Israelite in heart,
    I no longer live but I live because He lives in me;
    I am covered with His glory all day long and that is why He has said:
    "You shall be called Dan – a Judge". It’s not because I am worthy to judge people, but because He lives in me.
    So when people see me they see Him and submit to Him:
    It’s not me who judges them but He judges them with my righteous living.
    O Lord! I've waited for your Salvation – It's priceless and I thank you for the great Love You have poured on me.

    I am the true Israelite in heart,
    I am called Manasseh because He has made me forget all my toil;
    And also I am Ephraim because He has made me fruitful in the Land of my affliction.
    He has named me Joseph since He adds to me blessings;
    And because I am a fruitful bough which runs over the wall;

    He has made me strong with His great, mighty and awesome Hand; And He has blessed me with precious things from heaven above and of the earth and its fullness.

    Yeah, I am the true Israelite in heart,
    Since His spirit lives in me, I have joy and happiness.
    That is why He has said I shall be called Asher –
    Because I will be rich and yield royal dainties; and because my strength will be like iron and bronze, as Eternal God who has saved me is my refuge and I am underneath His everlasting arms.
    He will thrust enemies before me and say them "Destroy". My battles are His ones.

    ........................................Continues............................................
     
  6. I am the true Israelite in heart,
    He has called me Judah for I shall offer praise to Him;
    And He deserves praise as I am in Him and I dwell safely in Him;
    He has called me Benjamin for He shelters me all day long and I dwell in His shoulders – I am the son of the right Hand,

    If you touch me you touch the eye of the Living God.

    I am the true Israelite in heart,
    Because I've wrestled with Him and have seen His face and He has called me Israel 'Prince with God',

    because I have struggled with God and men and I have prevailed since He prevailed over me – When He conquers I also conquer.
    I am Israel, the descendant of faith – By faith I live, by faith I move Mountains.
    I am the true Israelite because I live by His grace, not by Luck;
    By His grace I have been preserved, sanctified and made righteous.
    Now I am transformed, made new and living by pursuing righteousness of Him (Who Was, Who Is and Who Is to Come).

    I am the Christian - a true Israelite at heart since I pursue Christ.

    He said "
    Happy are you O Israel, who is like you - People saved by Lord
    ";
    Lord who is shield of my help and sword of my majesty – My enemies shall submit to Him.

    I am the true Israelite built on the rock- Rock of my salvation- Jesus Christ.
    I am the true Israelite at heart -A heart offered to me by Him who Loved Me; Now I am on a Journey to eternity – a place where there shall be no more death, no sorrow, no crying, no more pain for former things would have passed.

    WORTHY IS GOD ALMIGHTY AND WORTHY IS THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST FROM NAZARETH

     
  7. Nathi..... Thanks again and can I copy these two.? I have a friend who is studying to witness to the Jewish people and I know she would be blessed by this.
     
  8. Value in doing Business with Israel

    Value in Doing Business with Israel
    Reports at Israel’s foremost economic policy meeting last month, the 15th Annual Economic Policy Forum convened by the Israel Democracy Institute, told a story of unusual economic resilience and growth in 2006-2007. Despite last summer’s war in Lebanon and an ongoing struggle against terrorism, participants at the meeting, also known as the Caesarea Forum, spoke of a thriving Israeli economy.

    In 2007, Israel has seen rapid increases in both GDP and international trade. Analysts at Morgan Stanley estimate that Israel’s real GDP growth for the coming year could reach 6% and remain at that rate through (Globes Online, July 18, 2007). Somehow the country’s economy rallied through the war and continues to grow.

    In spite of Hamas’s rise to political leadership and recent violent takeover of the Gaza Strip, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert’s report to the conference highlighted a significant drop in the national debt. Fighting and instability did not stop the country from paying off its loans.

    And despite Hizbullah rockets being aimed at Israeli cities, unemployment in Israel has been dropping consistently. Estimates by the Bank of Israel see unemployment rates falling to 7.5% by the end of 2007. Although over one million Israelis live within rocket range of a terrorist militia, Israelis work more and are providing for their families.

    In blatant disregard for international boycotts, investors continue to look to Israel as fertile and stable ground for factories, offices, and research facilities. Last year, mega-investor Warren Buffett sought out and agreed to a US $4 billion investment in the Israeli economy with the purchase of Israel-based Iscar Ltd. Divestment campaigns stand no chance against the economic opportunities perceived by the international community.

    While Iran issues frequent calls for Israel’s destruction, the leading countries of the world make strides toward raising Israel’s economic stature. In his address to the Caesarea Forum, Governor of the Bank of Israel Professor Stanley Fischer noted that as of 2007 the “State of Israel has been accepted as a candidate to join the OECD.â€

    Inclusion in the prestigious Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development would place Israel in the company of the 30 most advanced countries promoting democracy and market economy. Ahmadinejad, by contrast, leads a country with decreasing economic freedom (Index of Economic Freedom 2007).

    Even with the continuing security challenges and a significant share of imperfections, the world continues to recognize the value of doing business with Israel. Despite the trials, the Israeli people persist in hard work, invest eagerly in their future, and are succeeding in strengthening and stabilizing the economy. Overcoming the damage of recent global economic tremors may take time, but there is every indication that the Israeli economy is up to the challenge.

    (Excerpts of an article by Barak Cohen, ISRAEL21c, August 26, 2007)

    Prayer Focus
    In spite of all Israel’s faults, God is blessing her. Praise God for this positive report. Pray that Israel will recognize that every good gift comes from Him.

    Scripture
    “Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning†(James 1:17).
     
  9. Yeah, what I post in this forum, its for all the saints, because its from Him, the God we serve:) Amen

    I Love you Mom:)
     
  10. God bless you Nathi and I love you too son.:):) Thanks I will copy them for her.
     
  11. Nathi,

    I sent your .... I mean God's writings to my friend who is studying in college..." How to witness to the Jewish People". She said they will be a great help as well as she has a lot of Jewish friends who are not Messianic Jews that she is witnessing to . Thanks for that , my son God Bless.
     
  12. Not many people seem to know this, but as soon as Saddam had the victory in Kuwait under his belt - he gave the order for 98 jets laden with weapons of mass destruction to attack Israel according to his number two man in the Air force General Georges Sada. The planes were being fitted with reserve fuel tanks for the return flight for those who survived the attack. Half of the planes were to come in from the north over Jordan; and half from the south - all at once in a massive surprise attack. How many would have made it? – unknown, but if only one made it the death toll could have been very great. Saddam was also massing his forces for an all out attack on Saudi Arabia.


    Both plans were canceled because of the action of George Bush 41 and the coalition in the liberation of Kuwait in 1991. Before the invasion of Baghdad General Sada also reported that 56 commercial plane loads of WMD's were flown to Syria under the guise of flood relief. Convoys were also sent. This revelation was totally ignored by the news media in keeping with their ideological editing of the news. Should a major outbreak of violence with Syria occur in the future – look out for these WMD's to reappear.


    Ref: Saddam's Secrets by General Georges Sada
    Gen Sada is a Christian and survived contradicting Saddam on many occasions by telling the truth and not pandering to him. He was number two in the Iraqi Air Force only because top officers in Saddam's regime had to be members of the Baath Party – and Sada refused.

    If we can't believe Sada, who has never lied and was a top insider in Saddam's war machine - who can we believe?
     
  13. Jasher.... Interesting news. Thanks
     
  14. The liberal bias in the US was so bad at one point it was almost pointless to watch- things like Dan Rather saying " this is what I think should happen " instead of actually reporting the news were all to common. With the realization of the number of voting christians in the is country that has changed somewhat for the better but not near enough- and oh yeah the producers and networks have figured out they can make money producing shows and movies with christain family values but even then it is slow in coming - my point Don't expect to see news coverage of the WMD's in the US anytime soon!
     
  15. Or in Canada either.
     
  16. Israel

    Hi, please consider the following:

    The word “churchâ€, from the original means “called out.†The Israelites were “called out†of Egypt. In the Old Testament they are referred to as “the congregation,†And Stephen, in his talk before the Sanhedrim, spoke of Israel as “the church in the wilderness.†“This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our father: who received the lively oracles to give unto us†(Acts 7:38). Just as Christ has many names in the Bible, so does the church.

    There is but one church, for the church is Christ’s body (Eph. 1:19-23), and there is one body (Eph. 4:4). “There is one body, and one Spirit …†Christ says, “My sheep hear My voice,†“and they follow Me†(John 10:27). “The house of God†is the church of the living God†1 Tim. 3:15). Christ and Moses are in the same fellowship (Heb. 3:2-6).

    The “church in the wilderness†was the true church of Christ; for we are told “they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ" (1 Cor. 10:4).

    The gospel was first preached to the gentiles, for Abraham was a Gentile, in other words, a heathen. He was brought up as a heathen, Terah was his father, and “served other gods†(Josh.24:2). So the preaching of the Gospel to the Gentiles was not a new thing in the days of Peter and Paul. The Jewish nation was taken out from among the heathen, and it is only by the preaching of the Gospel to the heathen that Israel is saved. (See Acts 25:14-18; Rom. 11: 25, 26).

    The Gospel was given to Abraham in these words: “In thee shall all nations be blessed.†It should be stated here that the two words “heathen†(“Gentiles,†in R.V.) and “nations,†in verse 8, come from the same word in the Greek. In both the Hebrew and the Greek “the heathen†and “the nations†are the same. Abraham, by nature a gentile, came out of the land of Ur,-- a Chaldean or Babylonian, preached righteousness by faith.

    As we know, Abraham had two sons, one by a bondwoman, and the other by a freewoman; one after the flesh, the other born after the Spirit. Many can be perplexed with respect to the "literal" and the "spiritual" seed of Abraham. Many talk as though the word "spiritual" were opposed to "literal." Actually, "spiritual" is opposed only to fleshly, or carnal, if you will. The true seed of Israel are only those who are spiritual. Christ had a spiritual body after His resurrection, yet He was real.

    Who are Israel? Jacob was given the name Israel because of his victory in Christ. It's not the name that brings the blessing, but the blessing brings the name. Jacob did not possess the name by nature, nobody else can either. A Jew is syncronous with the name of Israel. An overcomer who praises the Lord. And "he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh: ... is one inwardly ...of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God" (Rom. 2:28, 29).

    Gentiles, heathen in the sense of the word, have no rights to the kingdom of God in their natural condition. Only Israelites will share the kingdom with Him; for Israelites are overcomers, and the promise is, "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with Me in My throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with My Father in His throne" (Rev. 3:21). All Israel will be saved.

    God is the author of "irony." The disciples had a misconception, only literal Israelites could really be saved. To eradicate their faulty understanding, Jesus declared, "I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Matt. 15:24). At that very moment Jesus put a blessing on a poor, despised, gentile, Cannanite woman, a descendent of the "heathen" who inhabited the land before the days of Joshua. “God is no respecter of persons, but in every nation he that feareth Him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with Him" (Acts 10:34, 35).

    John
     

  17. Bless you for this post. I believe the exact same way. I'm confused by some ministers who preach like Israel is still physcial instead of spiritual. I have tried understanding what makes them think that way but they sure have me stumped.
     
  18. God says israel will come back,and it has happened.justify the bible,they think they have found tha ark,also the arc of covenant,also the real mt sinia,also jesus ,s blood which i,m not happy about.the people who have doubted scripture and trusted a liar,are now grinding there teeth.then they believe another lie try to confuse God,guess what not working.
     
  19. Blessed are the Peacmakers

    A quote from a peacemaker:

    “From the statement in Rom. 13:10, that “love worketh no ill to his neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law,” it will be seen that Christian love does not possibly admit of wars and fightings. Its possession makes it impossible for one to say, as is frequently said in these days, “I have been an advocate of peace and arbitration for twenty-five years, but”—and then go on to say that under such provocation as now exists war is welcomed. “Love worketh no ill to his neighbor;” and no philosophy can ever make it appear that it does a man any good to kill him.

    When the soldiers asked John the Baptist what they should do, as followers of the Lamb of God, to whom he pointed, he replied, “Do violence to no man.” Luke 3:14. Those who asked were “soldiers on service,” as we see from the margin of the Revised Version. And the margin also gives as the alternative rendering of John’s answer, “Put no man in fear.” It would be a very mild war in which this command was followed. Love never does any harm to anybody; but love is active, since it is the life of God; therefore love is always doing good. Jesus Christ, the Prince of Peace, “went about doing good.” End Quote

    Are we not to be Patriotic?

    One may ask, "What about patriotism, a love of country?" We could say then, "Christian patriotism is a love for country of his Christian birth." If I'm not out of line to say so, the Christian birth is the new birth; it's being "born again," which is being "born from above," that would be heaven.

    Abraham was commanded by God to "Get thee out of thy country, ... into the land that I will show thee." And "confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. ... But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly:" Hebrews 11:13-16.

    Christian patriotism is the love of the heavenly country. Then should Christians fight? YES. "Fight the good fight of faith ..." 1 Timothy 6:12.

    Remember, "...the carnal mind is enmity against God" Romans 8:7. ("For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds). Casting down imaginations [human reasoning], and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God..." 2 Corinthians 10:4, 5.

    "I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world." John 17:14.

    May spiritual Israel be peacemakers, not warmakers. If Christians are not peacemakers, who will fulfill God's word in Christ?

    blessings in Christ,
    John
     

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