Is Satan The "anti-god"?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Godspell, Sep 4, 2014.

  1. I've heard referenced by certain interpreters of revelation the existence of an "unholy" trinity, that is Satan, The Anti-Christ, and the False Prophet, who contrast with God, Christ and the Holy Spirit respectively.

    To me this sounds dualistic, and I find that it is typical of a lot of Christians to make this appeal that virtue is from God and sin is from Satan. But I actually think this is incorrect. Satan is not the "Anti-God" as I see it, which implies the forces of evil are as powerful as those of good.

    Rather I believe that virtue comes from God and sin come from the absence of God. Satan as I see him is the prince of sinners, that is he is truly the best of them, but I don't believe it is entirely accurate to say that he is the lord of sinners. I also don't believe that he is, strictly speaking, the source of evil, but he does engender evil insofar as it aid in his ultimate rebellion against God.

    Further, I think it is incorrect and even idolatrous, to propose that Satan is omnipresent or eternal. Therefore, I don't strictly believe that Satan is the lord of hell, either, but in fact God presides over the eternity of hell as He does the eternity of paradise, and Satan is just another prisoner of it, albeit the chief prisoner.

    Aside from dualism, I also question if our image of Satan is strictly accurate, as early Judaism suggest that he was actually something more of a prosecutor who tested people's resolve for God, rather than a archenemy of God. I wonder if Satan is actually the personification of what is against God, rather than a strictly literal being, but I will leave that one to more seasoned theologians.
  2. Satan is only a created being, he can't even do creative miracles, all he can do is sing songs and deceive,
    and go really really quick around the world.
    Flavio and Abdicate say Amen and like this.
  3. You make an interesting point.....

    I think key to understanding the "Root" of sin....
    Sin is doing anything Against the Will of God... It doesn't matter how well intentioned or "Morally good" it may be.... ANY disobedience is automatically SIN.... The "Worst" form of Sin is Presumptuous, Intentional, Willful sin - where you DECIDE intentionally to do something you KNOW is against the command of God.... It doesn't matter HOW well intentioned it is.... You still committed Willful, Presumptuous, Intentional sin.

    Here's my interpretation of the "Unholy Trinity":
    Our Flesh - our own willful nature
    The World - The willful nature of those around us

    Now... It's true that Satan is a deceiver.... but it's kinda funny how nobody notices that in Revelation - when Satan is bound for 1,000 years - Man STILL finds a way to rebel against God....


    Well... WE still have The Flesh, and we still have The World..... We love to BLAME all that stuff on Satan... but in reality - it's OUR OWN willful nature, and the Willful Nature of everybody else around us... and that gets us into PLENTY of trouble without any help from Satan....

    God is Love and Flavio say Amen and like this.
  4. I believe that the Bible tells us that Satan is a created being who at first was a holy angel maybe even an arch angel of God.

    IMO, to say that "virtue comes from God and sin comes from the absence of God" is kind of like saying there is no such thing as COLD, only an absence of heat.

    IMO sin came from the "temptation" of Satan to Eve and she gave in to that temptation which was disobeying God and THAT is sin.

    Sin is described in the Bible as transgression of the law of God (1 John 3) and rebellion against God (Deuteronomy 9:7; Joshua 1:18). Sin had its beginning with Lucifer, probably the most beautiful and powerful of the angels. Not content with his position, he desired to be higher than God, and that was his downfall, the beginning of sin (Isaiah 14:12-15). Renamed Satan, he brought sin to the human race in the Garden of Eden, where he tempted Adam and Eve with the same enticement, “you shall be like God".

    Since Lucifer/Satan was the original sinner and he was removed to earth where he in fact tempted Eve, it seems to me that he is in fact the source of evil. But that is just me.

    Since Satan is NOT in hell today, he is the prince of the power of the air, he can not be the Lord of Hell. However he can certainly be the task master of the demons from hell.

    Ephesians 2:2.....
    "In which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience".

    1 Peter 5:8........
    "Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour".

    As for his eternal ability, I once again refer to the Scriptures.

    Rev. 20:10...........
    "and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

    Well, there be your un-holy trinity so to speak. All 3 are found in the Lake of Fire......."For EVER and EVER".

    That says eternal torment for eternity to me. But again, that is just me.
  5. I believe most of the stories about Satan are rooted in christian tradition. I don't know for sure, but I tried to do a study about him and I didn't find anything in Genesis. Possibly there is something in Daniel but I'm guessing it came about in the intertestamental period when the pharisees were influenced by Zoroastrians of Persia and reconstituted Satan. But I don't know about that for sure.

    Its interesting you used the analogy about hot and cold because cold is, by definition, the absense of heat, scientifically speaking.

    As to the eternity in the lake of fire, as I said my problem was only with Satan being the ruler of hell as eternal as God. I don't think that's accurate. He's only a prisoner like all who rebel against God. But I think that they are also all their own kind of Satan not so much prisoners to him.
  6. And I agreed with you. Since he is not in hell he can not then be the master of a place where he is not at. However it is clear that from all the biblical accounts he does have control over the demons of hell.

    You might want to consider the book of Isaiah and even Job as places where Satan is found.
  7. God's are not created
    Satan was created
    Therefore Satan is not god

    Also to say he is than that would he and God are equal. In that case we could worship either one and be fine. Just conspiracy theories man.
    Major likes this.
  8. Well, in Job Satan is depicted as a sort of prosecutor, as part of this divine council.

    I'll look through Isaiah, I haven't studied that book as extensively.

    As for demons, I suppose, but I'm still not entirely sure if that's accurate. Satan to me seems like a sort of "anarchist" leader. Perhaps he has control, but he seems more akin to liking chaos not order.

    This is what I was trying to say. I think this dualism is inaccurate, Satan is a creature, possibly the personification of sin, but I don't believe he is "lord" of anything.
  9. Many state that job was actually written as a parable. You're right that Satan was actually part of a council, but I'm not sure about the prosecutor or the divine part.
  10. Well, that's how I've heard him described as someone who tried to impeach faithful Hebrews. As you can see in Job he wants to test Job to see if he's really faithful. Divine just being like an angel in heaven.
  11. Ephesians 2:2.......
    "in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience".

    Isaiah 14:12 (ESV)
    12 “How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground,
    you who laid the nations low!

    Satan was created as a holy angel. Isaiah 14:12 possibly gives Satan’s pre-fall name as Lucifer.

    Ezekiel 28:12–14 (ESV)
    12 “Son of man, raise a lamentation over the king of Tyre, and say to him, Thus says the Lord God: “You were the signet of perfection,
    full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. 13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering, sardius>"

    Ezekiel describes Satan as having been created a cherubim, apparently the highest created angel. He became arrogant in his beauty and status and decided he wanted to sit on a throne above that of God.

    Satan’s pride led to his fall. Notice the many “I will” statements in Isaiah 14:12-15. Because of his sin, God permanently removed Satan from his exalted position and role.
    Even though he was cast out of heaven, he still seeks to elevate his throne above God. He counterfeits all that God does, hoping to gain the worship of the world and encourage opposition to God's kingdom. Satan is the ultimate source behind every false cult and world religion. Satan will do anything and everything in his power to oppose God and those who follow God. However, Satan’s destiny is sealed—an eternity in the lake of fire
  12. Agreed!
  13. Genesis is filled with the devil's work. His mission is spelled out in Genesis. If you miss that you'll miss it in the last days. Aside from the serpent read Genesis 3.
  14. I agree totally with you. Did you notice that you said Genesis and others say "Christian tradition".
    Abdicate likes this.
  15. Maybe I am wrong and maybe I am right. YOU tell me. But it seems to me that your original question was focused on
    "Is Satan the master of hell?

    There is a common misconception that Satan is in charge of hell and that he and his demons live there and use their pitchforks to torment souls for eternity. I agree with you and This concept has no basis in Scripture whatsoever. In fact, Satan will be one of the tormented in the lake of fire, not the tormentor.

    Rev. 20:10......
    "and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

    So then, where does the idea that Satan is the master of hell come from, if not from the Bible? Much of the false thinking may come from Dante Alighiere’s epic poem The Divine Comedy. Many other works of art, and literary pieces such as Dan Brown’s novel Inferno, follow Dante’s lead and picture Satan as the one in charge of hell. Isn't it scary that people with believe fictitious novels over and above the Word of God?????

    If you will investigate Dante’s poem, it describes the brutal descent of sinners into the underworld. Dante journeys through different levels of hell and purgatory and eventually arrives in paradise. The poem itself was an amalgamation of myths, Catholic ideas, and Islamic traditions about Muhammad’s “night of ascension”. Dante’s medieval view of hell is influenced more by the Qur’an than the Bible. Interesting isn't it?????? Is interesting the right word here?????

    Dante’s literary vision of hell is depicted by Botticelli in his painting Map of Hell as a subterranean funnel of suffering—a wretched underground landscape of fire, brimstone, sewage, and monsters, with Satan himself waiting at its core. It’s all very disturbing, and effective as a work of art, but it is based on the imaginations of men, not the Word of God.

    Satan is not the ruler of hell. It is God who is in charge. Jesus says in Luke 12:4-5..........
    “Do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that can do no more. . . . Fear Him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell”.

    Jesus is referring to God here. He alone has the power to throw someone into hell. Who holds the keys of death and hades? Jesus has absolute control over that domain .

    Rev. 1:18.......
    "and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades."

    Matthew 16:18.....Jesus assures all believers that not even the gates of hades can overcome His church.
    "And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock[a] I will build my church, and the gates of hell[b] shall not prevail against it."
  16. Eh... that's still a bit of a stretch. The
    I suppose what I am really objecting to is the notion that if you don't belong to God you belong to Satan.

    I feel as though this purports a dualistic nature of Christianity, which it is not. Not belonging to God means you don't belong to God, or you belong to sin, not necessarily "Satan" who I don't believe is the "Anti-God".
  17. Only to those that don't want to believe and see.
    Major likes this.
  18. So ... First part... right on.

    Second part... getting there..

    See... We are all God's whether we like it or not. This is God's creation - lock, stock, and barrel. There is nothing formed that is not God's - including Satan... We are either obedient or disobedient - but we are God's nonetheless...
    Major likes this.
  19. Well, that's essentially what I was trying to say. You can choose to reject God, it doesn't necessarily mean your as evil as Satan. Though the person that rejects God is punished in hell just like Satan, but it is a punishment of their own making, not Satan's. Satan, as I see him, is just a very prolific sinner, the prince of sinners. But he is not lord of anything.
  20. Absolutely.

    He's definitely not the 'anti God'. Satan is just a fallen angel whose days are numbered and that has already been defeated by the Grace of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

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