Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Brian J. Rivera, Oct 18, 2014.
Simple question and please provide evidence.
By what do you mean allegorical? As in Job's trials? Did God really allow Satan to test him?
Is job a historical person? Was job tested by yahweh? Basically all of the above.
Job showed fear for his children and this opened him up to attacks by Satan.
From Job 1:1
There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was blameless and upright, and one who feared God and shunned evil.
If this were an allegory, the specific land of Uz would not be needed. So I believe it to be a true account.
Just because it describes where someone was does not mean it is historical. For example there are lots of movies and stories in real world scenarios. Building a setting does also help with a story. Interesting poinpoint non the less.
Well there is also his daughters' names at the end of the book for no apparent reason, "Jemimah, the second Keziah and the third Keren-Happuch" and his so called friends have not just names but heritage and/or homelands listed, "So Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite ..."
My opinion is that the book of Job recalls real events and real people.
Ezekiel 14:14,20 associates Job with Noah and Daniel, two other real people.
James 5:11 assumes Job was a real person. If the story were fiction, there would be nothing to "see", because in fiction you can arrange a story to make anything appear true. A fictional Job could not encourage me to endure suffering, because a fictional Job never really suffered.
Also, Job's friends were described as descendants of Abraham in Job 2:11. Eliphaz the Temanite was of Edom (Genesis 36:11, 25:30), Bildad the Shuhite was of Abram (Genesis 25:2), and Elihu the Buzite was of a nephew of Abram (Genesis 22:21). (Job himself may have been a gentile.)
I agree completely. It should also be noted that Job is considered to be the oldest book in the Bible written about 1500 BC.
You of course are correct, but proper names of places and people indicate REAL things and not made up things because they can be proven to be real places and real people.
It's real and one of the most misunderstood books, not because it's difficult to understand, but in how it is applied in "churches". It paints God as evil for allowing all those things to happen - this is the error. There is so much in Job we can learn if we took the time to understand it. Any time something bad happens to someone they run to Job's story for condolence and for the wrong reason. Job is real.
I don't really hold a position on either side. I believe there is a lot that can be learned from it. Also merely having a story in real setting does not always make it true. Even if some of the characters were actually real. Kinda like cameos of real life actors in movies.
Anyway i digress and would like to bring up the topic of whether or not god was just in this story. From my standpoint it seems that god was cruel to Job. (I'm playing g devils advocate, I don't actually believe that) Why would god kill jobs family and make him suffer? Also why would god just simply replace his family at the end?
Job is the one who sinned, therefore allowing Satan in to attack him.
How did job sin? In the begining it says job was a loyal and holy man. Also why punish job's servants instead of him.
Also another interesting point. Did jobs sons and daughters actually die? We're they ressurected?
To me it seems like they died but their death may not have been painful. Also consider that god does not care about this life but rather the next life. What's a lifetime compared to an eternity?
Job 1:5 (KJV)
And it was so, when the days of [their] feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings [according] to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.
He worried. This opened the door for the accuser to attack. (remember the Shield of Faith) Though Job feared God he didn't trust God. Job wanted to save his kids himself instead of allowing God to take care of the situation. This is the #1 problem of Christians today.
Then he sinned again:
Job 1:21 (KJV)
And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.
Job 42:2 (KJV)
I know that thou canst do every [thing], and [that] no thought can be withholden from thee.
He blamed God for his troubles. He gave false truth to God in that because God knows everything, God didn't DO anything to stop this. Isn't that what we do too!? God didn't do it, Satan did because of sin in his [our] lives.
Later God called him out on this:
Job 40:7-8 (KJV)
Gird up thy loins now like a man: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me. Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?
Job 40:7-8 (ESV2011)
“Dress for action like a man; I will question you, and you make it known to me. Will you even put me in the wrong? Will you condemn me that you may be in the right?"
Job saw his sin, confessed it (42:2), repented, and said:
Job 42:5-6 (KJV)
I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. Wherefore I abhor [myself], and repent in dust and ashes.
It's easy to point fingers at God, but there are three pointing back at yourself. Job had HEARD of God, but NOW he has SEEN Him! We MUST take hold of this truth so we can be free!
James 1:17 (KJV)
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
Romans 8:32 (KJV)
He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
The Kingdom of Heaven is only taken by force!
Brian, there is nothing in the book of Job itself that would indicate that it is not literal.
You explained this a lot better than I would have. Great post
I don't see how job sinned when we offered a sacrifice for his sons and daughters. Also if job did sin against god that would make god lose the wager.