Is Jesus "in" The Godhead Or Is The Godhead "in Jesus" ?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Brother David, Jan 25, 2014.

  1. Jesus speaking here in Revelation stating that He is the "FIRST and the LAST"-
    Revelation 1:11
    King James Version (KJV)
    11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
    The true revelation of Jesus Christ is that He is God alone, and there is no God beside Him, Jesus as the office or role of the Son of God, He was literally God manifest in the flesh. Not a second or a third "person" but God came as a perfect man to redeem sinners.
    1 Timothy 3:16
    King James Version (KJV)
    16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
    The doctrine of the trinity was a development, the Bible speaks of no such word, or "triune" God, or even the concept of a God that is three persons. There are over some 300 verses of scripture that imply that God is ONE:
    Deuteronomy 6:4
    King James Version (KJV)
    4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:
    Many times our God is called the Holy ONE (not Holy TWO or THREE !)
    Colossians 2:9
    King James Version (KJV)
    9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
    The word says "In Him" not them ! Dwelleth ALL the fullness of the Godhead bodily. (this does NOT mean that two other people were IN Jesus !)

  2. Was Jesus just a member of the Godhead or was He all the substance of it ?
    Was He just a second person in a trinity or was He God alone ? Where did Jesus, the prophets of old, or the Apostles teach explicit teaching about God in multiple persons? Jesus said: "Before Abraham was, I AM ( He stated He was God) There is only ONE God - Jesus as the Son was God In the flesh. Jehovah / Jesus = One God - Not two, Not three.
  3. "I and my Father are one." John 10:30.

    Keep it simple, bro. And in love.
    AllieWi likes this.
  4. In Hebrews 1 and 2 we see into a mystery...the Son is creator and even the angels worship Him, thus He is before all angels and the creator even of angels, but of Jesus it says He was made a little lower than the angels...what do you make of this?
  5. #5 Brother Paul, Jan 26, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2014
    In Isaiah 48 YHVH is speaking (and we know and agree there is only one YHVH) and He goes on to tell the prophet He is the first and the last, who spread out the heavens, who knows the end from the beginning, but in verse 16 YHVH says, "and the YHVH of Hosts has sent me with His Spirit"

    YHVH speaking is sent by YHVH with the Spirit of YHVH...what do you make of this?

    The reason I asked these two are because some fall into the modern Sebellian heresy that Jesus is the Father, Jesus is the Son, and Jesus is the Spirit...the Bible as I see it teaches there is only one YHVH and YHVH is the Father, is the Son (who when He became incarnate was named Jesus), and is the Holy Spirit...YHVH is them all yet there are not three YHVHs...the same YHVH who is the Father, is also the Son, and the Spirit...but the Father is not the Son, neither the Son the Father, nor the Spirit...
  6. I can nearly agree with you here.....Except that Jesus is the New covenant revealed name of God.
    I don't think about God in terms of two, three, four etc.... I believe the Bible explicitly teaches that He is ONE - Deut 6:4
  7. the yachid (numerically one) God is echad (a unity)...

    So exegete how in Hebrews 1and 2 we see into a mystery...the Son is creator and even the angels worship Him, thus He is before all angels and the creator even of angels, but of Jesus it says He was made a little lower than the angels...what do you make of this?
  8. The mystery is that our creator became our Saviour. This very similar to John 1:1- In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    It speaks about in the mind of God there was a plan.....
    But, surely we can know that the word says God gave His only "begotten" Son. This Son had a beginning as far as physically or in the flesh, but in the mind of God He saw from who knows when.
    When God manifested Himself in flesh and became a man He limited Himself, He lowered Himself, as a man He became willingly subordinate to the Spirit.
  9. Colossians 2:9
    King James Version (KJV)
    9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
    Notice that the word states: In Him- Not them !
    There were NOT two other people inside of Jesus.....Our God is ONE.
  10. Greetings:

    I never sat down beside myself either on the right nor the left side.Looks to me that in at least two dimensions,in time,out of
    time,the divine interacts with humans on multiple or singular aspects,in order to deal with groups,males,females,and even the dead.

  11. Yep, uh huh bla bla bla
  12. Exactly what I said person...the word Godhead just means Divinity
  13. God is ONE- Not three
  14. #14 Brother Paul, Jan 27, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2014
    Then God is one as more than one is He not? Are you saying only the Father is really God? Or only Jesus? You so know that people who believe in the Triune nature of God also believe there is only one God? The Father IS God. The Son (Word) IS God. The Holy Spirit IS God. But there is only one God not three...however there are a number of subject object dialogues between the Father and the Son and either of them can send the Holy Spirit but the Spirit cannot send the Father. Only the Father knows the time of the parousia and only the Son became incarnate and died on the cross, yet only the Holy Spirit can baptize one into Christ,...and so on...

    So that we are not just batting around semantics, could you explain (as best as any could in human terms) your understanding?

    I thought Isaiah 48 made a really good point...In the Hebrew, the YHVH who is speaking is sent by YHVH of Hosts WITH His Spirit...and the LXX puts it like this (YHVH is speaking)..."48:12 Hear me, O Jacob, and Israel whom I call; I am the first, and I endure for ever.

    48:13 My hand has founded the earth, and my right hand has fixed the sky: I will call them, and they shall stand together.

    48:14 And all shall be gathered, and shall hear: who has told them these things? Out of love to thee I have fulfilled thy desire on Babylon, to abolish the seed of the Chaldeans.

    48:15 I have spoken, I have called, I have brought him, and made his way prosperous.

    48:16 Draw nigh to me, and hear ye these words; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning: when it took place, there was I, and now the Lord, [even] the Lord, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

    Changing who has sent YHVH to the YHVH and His Spirit

    How does this define the nature of the One God...

    brother Paul
  15. #15 Brother David, Jan 27, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2014
    What book of the Bible is the word Triune in ? Where did Jesus teach of a Triune nature ?
  16. Full Definition of HERETIC
    : a dissenter from established religious dogma; especially: a baptized member of the Roman Catholic Church who disavows a revealed truth.

    According to this definition in Webster's dictionary, many could rejoice in this title. Count me in for the name "heretic"
  17. I would never call you a heretic brother I KNOW you love God and are in Christ (families can sometimes bicker and I certainly don't know everything) There is much more to God that I do not understand than there is that I do. You are correct, the word triune never appears in the Bible, but as I just showed you (and there are other examples)...the one God represents Himself as simultaneously being more than one at the same time, in the God-breathed word...

    I am sure you would agree that the Father is called God and Lord, the Son (Word) is called God and Lord, and the Holy Spirit is called God and Lord, and that there is only one God. We just see the persons as eternally distinct (not confusing the persons nor dividing the substance).

    I am out...but may His shalom/peace be unto David.

    In His love

    brother Paul
  18. Not "persons" the Bible knows of no such terminology. Even a human being could be a father, and a son, and an uncle, a grandfather, a husband, a teacher, a preacher etc......simontaneously and be ONE person.
  19. Good point brother, I know where you are coming from. But do I as a son speak to myself as a father in the 1st person referring to me as a father in the third person? Surely I would be locked up. When the Lord (the Word/Son) speaks to the Lord (the Father) as one to another, or when He promises to send the Spirit (I will send you the Comforter), is the Spirit actually Himself who He sends? Does not the wording imply two persona? We know there is only one God. We know the Father and the Son and the Spirit are in full agreement (all expressing the will of God), the will of the Father being also the will of the Son and also the will of the Spirit, but when the Son says I came (this means it was His pre-incarnate intention) to do THY WILL (the will of His Father) are you saying He as a son came to do His own fatherly will, that His sonship will yields that will to His own fatherly will? See the confusion this explanation creates? Maybe not!
  20. Very good........
    God was IN Christ reconciling the world unto Himself. The Son is God in flesh or God in the body of a man to redeem fallen man.
    The Father (God or Spirit) was in Jesus.
    Here is something to ponder: The doctrine of the trinity says that God is in three Co-Equal- Co-Existant- Co-Eternal persons that are one.
    These are NOT equal......almost always trinitarian scholars will admit that the Father is the "head" of the three persons.
    In all of the trinitarian teaching about God in three separate equal persons- Where is there any dialoge with the three of them together ? What is the Holy Ghost's personal name (not comforter) , but personal pronoun name. Where does the Father talk with the Holy Ghost ? Where does Jesus ?

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