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Is Hell Literal

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Brian J. Rivera, Jul 27, 2014.

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  1. I was watching a video by Jp holding about whether or not hell is physical torture. What do you guys think?
     
  2. Oh goodness. Another one of these. :)

    I believe in conditional immortality , which is the belief that the soul is not created immortal but immortality is the gift we are given through salvation. I don't believe the wicked are given this gift so they are destroyed after judgement. Look up Ed Fudge on YouTube for more details. It's also called Annihilationism.
     
  3. Yes I heard about that and I also understand it is rooted in some early church fathers. I saw your thread before but I didn't look into it that much.
     
  4. It's a very biblical belief. I was actually surprised how well it fits with Scripture when I started researching it.

    Upon rereading your original post I want to clarify something. Are you asking whether our physical bodies are tormented or only our spirits? Or are you asking whether hell is a literal place in which we are punished?
     

  5. Feel free to answer all of them. Also lets throw purgatory and limbo in this. I personally hold the belief that he'll is shame based and while there may be torture most of it is shame.
     
  6. This is actually interesting to me because I haven't quite decided whether I think our souls are ever separate from our bodies. I don't think that we are judged directly after death, and instead are waiting for a physical resurrection and final judgement. That being said, I would say that the punishment that the wicked face would be physical in nature but also effect the soul.

    I believe that hell is a literal place but I don't believe anyone is there currently.

    I believe that all the dead are unconscious and awaiting resurrection and final judgement. I don't believe in purgatory, although some people say that the view that there is a transitional place means I believe in something similar to purgatory. I don't know anything about limbo so I can't comment on it.

    What biblical support is there for your view? I'm not saying that there isn't any because I know a few people that hold this view. I'm only interested in what verses you use to support your view.
     
  7. Most of my information is located here.

    http://www.tektonics.org/film/hellislike.html

    As for hell being a physical place. I agree that it is a physical place. I do not necessarily hold that everyone is tortured (physically) I believe that it is mainly separation from God and shame.(2 Thessalonians 1:9)

    Another verse that suggests purgatory is Peter 3:18-20, 4:6. To be honest I'm not entirely sure and I need to do more research on purgatory 1st.
     
  8. Is that your site, Brian?

    I find it interesting that the article talks about Gehenna but doesn't show the difference between Hades, which is what is mentioned in the rich man and Lazarus. Hades isn't the same as Gehenna. I'll have to find the cross reference tomorrow for you but Sheol is the same as Hades in Greek and righteous people go to Sheol in the Old Testament.

    2 Thessalonians 1:9 says destruction as well. What is your take on that portion of the verse?

    We'll have to research into Purgatory more so that we can discuss it further. Although I don't believe that people I'm Hades are conscious, I don't have any real objection to someone believing they are conscious. The only passage I would cite would be when Saul raises Samuel and he says something about his rest being disturbed. I suppose that could be taken as conscious rest, but I don't believe it is.

    I'd like to say thank you for this discussion, Brian. It's been enjoyable so far and I hope that anyone that enters remains respectful of differing beliefs.
     

  9. Just being separated from God is torture
     
  10. Luke 16
     
    Major likes this.
  11. Well sir, all of my information comes from the Lord Jesus Christ. In the Gospel of Luke chapter 16 He clearly tells us exactly what hell is like.

    "There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
    22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
    25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
    27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
    29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
    30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
    31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”


    Now this is real, real simple. Do you believe that Jesus was telling the truth, or do you believe that He was lieing.

    That is how easy it is to answer your question my brother.
     
    autumn oddity likes this.
  12. Ok so the website is NOT mine but much of my information is from there. JP Holding owns the . Also he does mention that sheol/Hades are temporary resting places for the dead. What I think, and I agree this is speculative, is that some may be saved in sheol and hades. As for the destruction part sin is commonly referred to as death. (Roman 6:28) It's kinda like someone saying I died back in that crash or rather the death is not literal.
     
  13. That actually deals with hades/sheol not hell.
     
    Huntingteckel likes this.
  14. I think what helps with understanding the source of Hell is if one realizes we are first discussing the, Judeo-Christian faith.

    Jesus was a Jew. He was born into the faith and the culture via the blood inheritance of his mother Mary. He was raised in the Hebrew temple and he would have been instructed from the time he was a boy in the Torah.
    There is no fire and brimstone "Hell" in the Torah. The only negative, if one wants to use that word, afterlife place in the Torah is known as, "Sheol".

    The fire and brimstone Hell was a manufacture of the Roman's Catholic faith. Gehenna, a place outside Jerusalem that was known for burning city garbage and even the bodies of the poor who could not afford to be entombed or buried, were discarded and burned there.
    Gehenna, became the visual that was employed to teach people about the new afterlife for the transgressed, the fallen, the unredeemed, when "Hell", which is a name derived from the Babylonian goddess of the underworld, Hel, and in a culture, Rome, that was largely Pagan and would have known her name so as to further teach a place for those fires of Gehenna to burn, so as to impart a fear paradigm that inspired conversion and obedience to the new church. The Roman's Catholic church.
    Who would have ever thought?
    A little over 300 years after Rome murdered God at behest of the Jews, Rome would establish a church and a faith in which to worship him?

    Hell is not something a Jewish Jesus would have known nor taught. Sheol is. I would suggest if you want to assuage your fears about the Catholic's Hell, that you read all you can on Sheol.
    It is not eternal, it is not fire and brimstone.
     
  15. That's just not the truth. Luke 16 is from Jesus' own lips. People reject its existence to justify their continue in sin, to seer their conscience with a hot iron so it stops harassing them.

    Deuteronomy 32:22 (KJV)
    For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

    - Original: שׁאל שׁאול
    - Transliteration: Sh@'owl
    - Phonetic: sheh-ole'
    - Definition:
    1. sheol, underworld, grave, hell, pit
    a. the underworld
    b. Sheol - the OT designation for the abode of the dead
    1. place of no return
    2. without praise of God
    3. wicked sent there for punishment
    4. righteous not abandoned to it
    5. of the place of exile (fig) ​
    6. of extreme degradation in sin ​


    Luke 16:23 (KJV)
    And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

    Greek:

    - Original: ᾅδης
    - Transliteration: Hades
    - Phonetic: hah'-dace
    - Definition:
    1. name Hades or Pluto, the god of the lower regions
    2. Orcus, the nether world, the realm of the dead
    3. later use of this word: the grave, death, hell

    Here's the Septuagint of Due 32
    22 ὅτι πῦρ ἐκκέκαυται ἐκ τοῦ θυμοῦ μου καυθήσεται ἕως ᾅδου κάτω καταφάγεται γῆν καὶ τὰ γενήματα αὐτῆς φλέξει θεμέλια ὀρέων

    Luke 16
    23 καὶ ἐν τῷ ᾅδῃ ἐπάρας τοὺς ὀφθαλμοὺς αὐτοῦ, ὑπάρχων ἐν βασάνοις, ὁρᾷ τὸν Ἀβραὰμ ἀπὸ μακρόθεν καὶ Λάζαρον ἐν τοῖς κόλποις αὐτοῦ.

    It's the SAME word Jesus used in Luke 16. Repent before it's too late.
     
    JustPassingThru likes this.
  16. You might want to research when Luke was written.

     
  17. As I said, you might want to consider researching as much as you can about Sheol. Judaism predates Christianity. In fact, Jesus did not come to found Christianity.
    The faithful to Christ's teachings were first called "Christians", in Antioch. Long after Jesus departed back to the father.
    Jesus was a Jew. He was not a Christian. ;)

    Judaism 101 - Sheol (This link speaks of "Hell" as well and in the proper context)
     
    Major likes this.
  18. It's hella literal.
     
    Abdicate likes this.
  19. Other than the actual final punishment we seem to agree. I've heard the argument that the death isn't literal, but I just don't see any reason to take it as symbolic language.

    Well, it looks like what I was afraid was going to happen has happened. :(
     
  20. What are you afraid of happening? I personally am not 100% or even 70% sure on some of these. I would love to continue this discussion but I need to do more research first. One reason why I say that the death is not literal is because death and hades are thrown into the lake of fire.
     
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