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Is God All-Powerful?

Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by Cosmicwaffle, Feb 10, 2015.

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Is God All-Powerful?

  1. Yes

    7 vote(s)
    100.0%
  2. No

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
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  1. PLEASE READ CAREFULLY

    So few of us actually realize how powerful God is. Consider this... What is the most perfect and powerful thing you can think of? How about God himself? What is the most evil and lowly thing you can think of? How about sinful creatures made of dust who mar the image of God?

    Now, here is what God has done and will do. He took the most perfect and powerful being there is, Jesus Christ, the very image of God, and made him to be sin and brought him to the grave. Talk about being humbled... He is then going to take us, sinful creatures made of dust who have marred his image, and will turn us into the perfect image of Christ himself. Talk about being exalted!!!

    You see now that God can bring the highest thing to the lowest point, and the lowest thing to the highest point. Who, knowing this, can doubt that God is all-powerful and in control of our destiny?
     
    Cinderella8 and Abdicate say Amen and like this.
  2. An explanation is needed, then, for this:
    Jeremiah 19:1 Thus says the Lord: .....
    4 “Because they have forsaken Me and made this an alien place, because they have burned incense in it to other gods whom neither they, their fathers, nor the kings of Judah have known, and have filled this place with the blood of the innocents 5 (they have also built the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings to Baal, which I did not command or speak, nor did it come into My mind), 6 therefore behold, the days are coming,” says the Lord, “that this place shall no more be called Tophet or the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter.

    Clearly, God did not order, pre-ordain, destine, speak into existence, nor even consider in His mind, such a thing to happen.
    And yet it did.

    We must be able to operate outside His control, or we could not be held responsible for our sin. If it were otherwise, it would be God's fault for what we do, after all, He made us this way.
     
    Relentless likes this.
  3. We are responsible for sin because we do it. God doesn't sin.

    Plus, the passage you posted does nothing to nullify all the scripture in favor of God's sovereignty, nor is it even speaking about his sovereignty. He is speaking to humans in a human way they can understand. The main point he was trying to make was "I did not command this!". Did he plan it would happen? Of course. How do we know? It happened.
     
  4. Cosmicwaffle, Nothing happens without God's "sovereign" will. God's "sovereign" will is that he lets man make his own choices, and suffer the consequences of his own choices, weather it be good or bad. The Lord God by his "grace" has given man this ability to choose.
     
  5. Have I argued we do not make choices? Have I argued we have no will of our own? No.

    I simply reject the idea that things happen outside of God's plan and purpose.
     
  6. Consider for a moment the greatest attrocity ever to fall on our history... We beat, shamed, and nailed the very son of God to a cross. If that isn't the greatest sin I don't know what is. Yet Scripture testifies to us in Acts 4:27-28

    “For indeed both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the people of Israel, assembled together in this city against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, to do as much as your power and your plan had decided beforehand would happen."

    If God planned the greatest sin ever commited for his plan and purpose, why not every other sin? Scripture testifies in Romans 8:28

    And we know that all things work together for good for those who love God, who are called according to his purpose...

    Why must we insist on making the wills of mere men able to damage or ruin God's plan, making God the reactor to things outside his control? We do not know the reasons for sin, but we should have the confidence that he does and that it will work for his glory!
     
  7. There are some things that God wills, and wants, but he will not get.

    1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
    1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

    The Lord wants ALL men to be save, but not all will be saved, because man has his own choice in the matter.
    This does not mean that God will not have his Church as he wanted from the beginning, it just means God will have his way without interfering with mans right to choose for himself.
     
  8. So you are telling me that God truely and honestly desires every single man woman and child who ever lived to be saved, yet God cannot do it because man has the ability to choose? Is choice more sovereign than God?

    I believe God is ALL-POWERFUL, that means if he wanted everyone saved, then everyone would be saved. If what you say is true then God will be eternally heartbroken because he failed to save people who Jesus shed his blood for. Can God be heartbroken? Can God fail? No.

    I think Christians today are so in love with the idea of "Free-Will" that they let it mess up their theology.
     
  9. Oh, and regarding 1Timothy 2:3-4... This is actually a verse used by Universalists because read what it says "Who WILL HAVE ALL MEN to be saved...". Now, if this mean't all men without exception, then Universalists would be right. However, this does not mean all men without exception, but without distinction: or rather, not just Jews, but all kinds of men, Jew and Gentile. You must remember, up until the cross salvation was only for Jews.
     

  10. This is circular reasoning, or begging the question.

    The scriptures clearly indicate some things happen that God did not plan or cause. Another example of this is God's conversation with Cain: "Sin desires to have you, but you must master it". Yet clearly Cain did not master it. Yet another example is when Jesus told the Pharisees that the only reason Moses permitted divorce by simply writing a certificate is "because your hearts were hard". Did God plan and choose for their hearts to be hard? No, that would be another case of circular reasoning: "I made your hearts hard, so I made a law to deal with it, because your hearts were hard".

    There is no need for foreknowledge if it is caused, just as there is no foreknowledge required to know the outcome of a game that I rigged. And since no one denies that God has foreknowledge, then no one should deny that things happen outside of the plan of God. We should not mistake the plan of God for the boundaries of God. God certainly can make it so no matter which path you take to get to a destination, you'll still get there. But there is no need for him to choose which path you take.
     
  11. Romans 9:18-24
    Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ ” Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use? What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?
     
  12. Aside from completely ignoring all the scriptures that speak of man's choices that God did not plan, this classic Calvinistic prooftext is not talking about individuals' free will to choose or reject Jesus. Look at the context: it's about Jews and Gentiles.

    If the Calvinistic interpretation is correct, then it makes the Bible contradictory since other passages clearly state the fact of man's free will to do things God neither planned nor thought of. What do you do with this contradiction caused by Calvinism? Please directly address this question.
     
  13. God has planned from the beginning that human beings would be sinful and disobey his Holy and Righteous commands. Man has the ability to choose but ever since the fall man has only been able to choose evil apart from the work of the Holy Spirit. The commands of God (The Law) were actually given to expose our sin and to make it known (Romans 3:20), showing us our need for the Lord Jesus Christ. Every sin that has ever and will ever happen has a place in God's plan or purpose.

    Also, him planning these things does not negate our responsibility for our sins. Why? Because they come from our wills, and we do them with sinful intentions, but God has planned them for good. Read the verses I posted from Romans 9 one more time.
     
  14. #14 Relentless, Feb 11, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2015
    No, God never planned for people to sin. That would make God the author of sin, and there is no way to avoid this conclusion. If God is the cause of everything, and nothing can happen that God did not cause, and sin is included in "everything" and "nothing" (all of which you have argued is the case), then there is no escaping the conclusion that God is the author (cause, planner) of sin. You cannot simply say this isn't the conclusion.

    Never does the Bible say man lost the ability to choose good after the Fall, and the scriptures are filled from one end to the other with the injunction to choose good over evil. Look again at what God said to Cain, shortly after the Fall: choose good. Was God lying? Was he mocking Cain's inability to choose? Or was God offering a genuine choice to one with the free will to make the right choice? Calvinism reads heavily into the text.

    Of course the law exposes sin and imperfection, but here again it does not say no one ever chooses good over evil. Did every Jew break every law? Of course not. And this being the undeniable case, it proves that people can choose to do good. In fact, they choose good quite often.

    Yes, if we can do nothing outside of the will of God, then God is responsible for everything we do. A puppet cannot be responsible for anything it does.

    PS: No need to tell me to read verses from Romans; I've read them many times.
     
  15. Simple and straight forward.
    God is omnipotent!
     
    Big Moose, Abdicate and Relentless says Amen and like this.
  16. God is not responsible for sin because the sin comes from our hearts and our minds. When I sin, I don't blame God, I sinned! But, I don't deny either that he has a reason for letting me sin. Paul answers your own question in the verses I posted.

    Romans 9:19-20
    You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who has ever resisted his will?” 20 But who indeed are you—a mere human being—to talk back to God? Does what is molded say to the molder,Why have you made me like this?

    And while we might do good things, we can never do them with a pure heart. Instead, like the Jews, we try to keep the laws religiously and in the flesh. It's only through the Holy Spirit that people can do things that are truely good.

    When God spoke to Cain, did he say "Choose good, you can do it!" or just "Choose good."? Nowhere does he say to men that they are able to do good, he simply commands it, knowing full-well they will fail and their sin will be made known. Think about Israel for a moment. How many times did they fall away from the commands of God? Plenty of times. Did God have a purpose in it? Yes.
     
  17. How can God plan for us to sin without causing us to will to sin? And again you take Paul's words out of the context of Jews and Gentiles as groups rather than about individual salvation.

    You say we can't do good things with a pure heart. Not only is this a backtrack from saying without qualification that we cannot do good things at all, but also it is based upon nothing in scripture. You also then admit that the Jews did indeed keep the law, but you make them all do so from a strictly legalistic motive, which is not true at all. On what basis do you claim that no Jew under the law ever obeyed it out of faith but only out of legalistic requirement? I seem to recall you arguing the opposite in another thread, if memory serves.

    There are atheists who do good things from very good motives. There are Christians who do bad things from bad motives. It defies both scripture and logic to say that you know everyone's motives for what they do. This is one of the many faults of Calvinistic determinism.
     
  18. Also, this statement makes God lying to Cain. Did God say "I'm telling you to do something I know you cannot do"? No.
     
  19. I will not believe in a God so-called who does not have everything under his power and control. When evil happens I need not despair because The Lord has everything under his hand and is working all things for his glory and our good. Can you say the same when evil happens? Or do you despair because yet another free-will creature has chosen to act outside his plan?
     
  20. God makes no such statement, he gave a command, nothing more, nothing less.
     
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